What do you do when striving to be a more human-centered leader or colleague, trying to advance your career, build your skills, and make a difference, and you’re stuck with an imperfect leader, dysfunctional culture, or too much work? You start by leading yourself!
Today, Elizabeth Lotardo and I discuss making the most of a job that’s not your dream job. Elizabeth shares why management is harder than it was 10-20 years ago, and how to work best with imperfect bosses of all kinds. We touch on how to advocate for yourself with empathy. She shares talk tracks and mindset shifts to help you navigate how you can influence controlling the controllable and put yourself back in the driver’s seat. She also shares a 10-second Jedi mind trick to shift complaining employees into accountable problem solvers!
To access the episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- It’s not your job to make someone else more empathetic. It is your job to control your reactions and the behavior that you’re modeling.
- It’s about leading yourself – not just in your career, but also through your career which includes new jobs as you choose.
- Even with all our faults, we, as humans, need one another. As you lead yourself, don’t forget those around you.
“If you are working for a human being, you’re working for an imperfect boss.” — Elizabeth Lotardo
Episode References:
Elizabeth’s HBR Articles:
- How to Work for a Boss Who Always Changes Their Mind
- How to Be a Purpose-Driven Leader Without Burning Out
From Our Partner:
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Go to sparkeffect.com/edge now and download your complimentary Professional and Organizational Alignment Review today.
About Elizabeth Lotardo: VP, McLeod and More and Author, Leading Yourself
Elizabeth Lotardo is a consultant, writer, and online instructor who helps organizations drive emotional engagement. Her new book, Leading Yourself: Find More Joy, Meaning, and Opportunities in the Job You Already Have has been called a refreshingly candid playbook that helps you create a work experience worth loving, right now.
With an undergraduate degree in advertising from Boston University and a Master’s in Industrial and Organizational Psychology, Elizabeth works with senior leaders, frontline managers, and entry-level teammates to create more purpose-driven work experiences. Her clients include Salesforce, DraftKings, Hilton, and numerous Berkshire Hathaway organizations.
She is also a popular LinkedIn Learning instructor. Elizabeth writes for Harvard Business Review and her work has been featured in The Wall Street Journal and NPR.
Connect with Elizabeth:
McLeod & More: mcleodandmore.com
Personal Website: elizabethlotardo.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/elizabethlotardo
Connect with Maria:
Get the podcast and book: TheEmpathyEdge.com
Learn more about Maria and her work: Red-Slice.com
Hire Maria to speak at your next event: Red-Slice.com/Speaker-Maria-Ross
Take my LinkedIn Learning Course! Leading with Empathy
LinkedIn: Maria Ross
Instagram: @redslicemaria
X: @redslice
Facebook: Red Slice
Threads: @redslicemaria
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Welcome to the empathy edge podcast, the show that proves why cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host, Maria Ross, I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy, from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society. It’s great for business. What do you do when you’re striving to be a more human, centered leader or colleague, trying to advance your career, build your skills and make a difference, and you’re stuck with an imperfect leader, dysfunctional culture, or too much work, you start by leading yourself the only element of the equation that is fully in your control. My guest today, Elizabeth letardo, shares loads of great advice from her new book, leading yourself find more joy, meaning and opportunities in the job you already have, despite imperfect bosses, weird economies, lethargic coworkers, annoying systems and too many deliverables. Woo, that is an awesome subtitle. Elizabeth is a consultant, writer and online instructor who helps organizations drive emotional engagement. Her new book has been called a refreshingly candid playbook that helps you create a work experience, work loving right now. Elizabeth works with senior leaders, frontline managers and entry level teammates to create more purpose driven work experiences. Her clients include Salesforce, DraftKings, Hilton and numerous Berkshire Hathaway organizations. She’s also a popular LinkedIn learning instructor and writes for Harvard Business Review, and her work has been featured in The Wall Street Journal and on NPR. Today, we discuss how to improve your company’s culture from whatever seat you’re in making the most of a job that’s maybe not your dream job, Elizabeth shares why management is harder than it was 10 or 20 years ago, and how to work best with imperfect bosses like micromanagers know it alls and leaders who constantly change their mind. We touch on how to advocate for yourself with empathy. Elizabeth shares talk tracks and mindset shifts to help you navigate. In her words, how you can influence controlling the controllable and put yourself back in the driver’s seat. And she also shares a 10 second Jedi mind trick to shift complaining employees into accountable problem solvers. Do not miss this one. Elizabeth wrote two HBr articles that we didn’t get a chance to dig into, but I’ve linked to them in the show notes, how to work for a boss who always changes their mind, and how to be a purpose driven leader without burning out. Enjoy this insightful conversation and let me know how the tips go for you. Welcome Elizabeth lotardo to the empathy edge to talk to us all about leading yourself and dealing with difficult people at work.
Elizabeth Lotardo 03:16
Thanks for having me, Maria. I know we’re like mine, so I’m excited to dive in
Maria Ross 03:21
we are and you know, just I want to read the name of your book again, because the subtitles are gold, and it’s really going to guide our conversation today. Your new book is called leading yourself find more joy, meaning and opportunities in the job you already have parentheses despite imperfect bosses, weird economies, lethargic co workers, annoying systems and too many deliverables. And I think you’ve covered all the things that are the pain points for so many of us in the workplace. So before we dive into the book, tell us a little bit about your story and how you got to this work.
Elizabeth Lotardo 03:58
So I have a background in Organizational Psychology. I’ve always been fascinated with human communication, human behavior, and much like you, I have a background in consulting, and through my consulting practice, I saw this crazy phenomenon that two people with the same job reporting to the same leader with the same way too long to do list would have wildly different experiences at work. One person would be happy and joyful in the face of too much to do, and the other person be completely taken aback and almost paralyzed. So what I wanted to unpack and leading yourself is knowing that all bosses are imperfect, like the subtitle says, knowing that we all have too much to do, knowing that we’re all up against annoying systems, weird economies, lethargic co workers, whatever it is, what are these small subset of people doing that are giving them more joy opportunities and meeting at work? And how can the rest of us replicate those mindsets and those behaviors?
Maria Ross 04:57
Okay, I love this because, as you know, you’ve been reading. The Empathy dilemma, which was exactly what I tried to unlock, was, how are some of these leaders able to balance empathy and high performance at the same time? And I think there’s something about our own curiosity of trying to study the people that seem to be doing it well and almost seem to be doing it innately. You know, I don’t know if this was true for you, but did when you were talking to people for the book, did you almost have to make them stop and think about what it was they were doing that enabled them to show up at work this way, because sometimes they’re just doing it and they don’t even know.
Elizabeth Lotardo 05:30
So one thing I wrote about in the book was my own first job experience, and I graduated college really optimistic, wide eyed, like a lot of us do, came into my low level, you know, minimal pay, advertising job and work kind of let me down. I think I had really high expectations, and that’s not an uncommon experience, but it doesn’t happen to everyone so much like you did in the empathy dilemma. I had to unpack why it doesn’t happen for everyone, and I was not included in the small subset of people who are innate self leaders. It’s something I did learn, and it’s something I now teach to lots of people on LinkedIn learning and through various organizations.
Maria Ross 06:10
I love it. And you know what you said earlier? Really sparked something for me, because I remember a previous boss that I really admired and I really got along well with. We had a very similar vibe and a similar style, and, and I didn’t interact with her necessarily on a daily basis, but I came to learn that other people had a not so great experience with her. And it was, it was really startling to me to learn that their experience was so different from mine and and, you know, I think it’s sometimes it is about whether you click, whether you vibe, whether you enjoy that style, but talk to us about what you do when you are trying to whether it’s improving the company’s culture or improving just your team culture and your your daily existence and experience. How can you impact that from whatever seat you’re in? Because what I hear a lot, as I was mentioning to you before we started recording, is that I’m trying to be, for example, an empathetic leader. I’m trying to be more human, centered and be curious and actively listen and be more collaborative. But my management team or my CEO is not like that. So how can I really impact the team or the culture or the organization. What did you find in your research?
Elizabeth Lotardo 07:24
The crux of leading yourself is controlling the controllable, and whether you are the CEO or an entry level teammate or even an intern, you define your organization’s culture. So being really intentional about how you’re showing up to those conversations about the level of purpose you’re putting into meetings is the first step, and it’s often easier to look at everyone else and say they don’t want to be empathetic, they don’t see all the things that we need to improve on. It’s a much more straightforward path than holding up the mirror to ourselves and thinking, what could I model? What can I be and enable other people to see to really move the needle on this? Yeah,
Maria Ross 08:02
that’s often. You know what I talk about as well, is that it’s not your job to make someone else empathetic, but you can control how you show up in the interaction, and hopefully you’re modeling that for that person, and you’re setting the tone for this is how I expect our interactions to go. And, yeah, it’s this crazy thing where you’re showing them that it’s possible to act that way, and maybe they’re not acting that way because they don’t think it’s possible or that it can lead to success.
Elizabeth Lotardo 08:28
And oftentimes we’re quick to assume that people don’t want to be empathetic, that they don’t care about other people’s feelings, unless they explicitly told you that that’s probably not the case. They’re probably acting out of overwhelm. They’re modeling what their own dysfunctional manager has been showing to them exactly. Let’s not assume too much malice here, because oftentimes when people do see a model for acting differently, they’re quick to step into that. I’ll tell you a funny story about this head of HR I was working with as a typical head of HR, lots of people came to him with complaints. My co workers not doing this. My manager said that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all these things around me are going so wrong. And he adopted a very quick response. The first time someone complains is, Oh, what did they say when you told them that they hurt your What did they say when you told them that what they were doing wasn’t acceptable? And that wasn’t his way of skirting responsibility, but it was his way of shaping the culture to be one of transparency and empathy. And again, it’s easier to complain in our own mind or two ahead of HR, when someone is acting in a different way than we expect them to, oftentimes, the root of it is just being upfront with those
Maria Ross 09:47
expectations that is such a great Jedi mind trick of just quickly, without having to say you really should go talk to them. It’s just, oh, you know, and making, maybe making a non assumption. And that they actually did have a conversation, because that manager doesn’t know if they did or not. So I love that table setting, because then it, it definitely sends a message to the other person of like, well, oh, I didn’t, I didn’t try that yet. Yeah,
Elizabeth Lotardo 10:12
over time, people stopped coming without having had the conversation with, frustrated with but I think that talk track used really effectively by the head of HR, is championing the mindset of self leadership. It is putting yourself in the power seat, controlling the controllable, and recognizing that while you can’t control everyone else’s words and actions and what they do and don’t do, you can influence it, and one of the biggest ways you can influence it is by modeling the behavior you want to see. Yeah.
Maria Ross 10:42
I mean, I think, you know, how often are we in a conversation, you know, even when we just talk about empathy, for example, of you know, instead of falling into the trap of solving someone’s problem, just being with them in the moment or in the issue, like, wow, Elizabeth, that must be really hard. Tell me more about that, and going in and asking questions and having that be the interaction actually signals to the person that’s in the interaction that this is how you operate. And maybe they go into their next conversation with somebody else, going, I’m going to try that, because that really made me feel good when I was in that conversation and that happened, and then you sort of light all these little candles along the way of people trying the technique that you just subconsciously showed them.
Elizabeth Lotardo 11:24
It is a Jedi mind trick, for sure. And I learned so much from both of your books, especially the empathy dilemma, on leaning into the uncertain element of a conversation. I employ the strategies at work. I also employ them with my toddler, the equal effectiveness 200%
Maria Ross 11:41
oh my gosh, so much in parenting. It’s ridiculous. So tell us a little bit about your advice or actionable strategies if you are working for these imperfect bosses, which, if you’re working for a human you probably are. But you know, there’s sort of different buckets of imperfect bosses. There’s the micro managers, there’s the know it alls there’s the leaders who don’t show decisiveness, one of my core pillars of being an empathetic and effective leader, and they’re constantly changing their minds. What sorts of things are you seeing those who are able to navigate those kinds of bosses? What are they doing and what are some of their talk tracks?
Elizabeth Lotardo 12:20
Like you said, if you’re working for a human being, you are working for an imperfect boss, and one of the reasons I wanted to call that out in my subtitle was to say, I see you. I wish your manager was more decisive. I wish they got out of your hair and let you do more work. It’s not fair that you have to deal with these idiosyncrasies, but everyone does, so let’s move away from focusing on what’s out of our control. There are sometimes annoying tendencies to what’s in our control. How can we use the power that we always have to shape this relationship for a better? If you’re working for a micromanager that could be setting up a recurring meeting at the start of every day, we’re going to get together and at the end of every day, we’re going to get together again, in hopes that that leaves you that middle chunk to actually do your work, if you’re walking, if you’re working for a boss who’s always changes their mind. I wrote an HBr piece about this last week. It’s so common a leader who backpedals, especially in the face of emerging technology, you’re going to control what you can when you’re talking to that boss, you’re going to give them a tee up. You’re going to explain what you talked about last time, remind them of the objectives, remind them who’s involved in the timeline. And again, these are small strategies, but taken together, the pull through is, what can I control? What can I say? What can I do? So instead of stewing in this other person on all the injustices they’re putting to me, I’m going to take my power back, and I’m going to shape this.
Maria Ross 13:43
And do you advise, or do you see any effectiveness with creating a time and a place to actually give that feedback to the manager? Like maybe not in that moment, but maybe I, you know, I don’t know if they will open the door to feedback to find out what you think or what they could improve on. They may not, they might not be that confident and humble to be able to do it. So is there a time and place, though, where you need to actually sort of have that meeting of, we need to talk about how we’re working together, certainly,
Elizabeth Lotardo 14:11
and back to the top track of, what did they say when you told them it is paramount that you are candid with your manager. That doesn’t mean you grown on and on about how much they’re interrupting costs you in the way you’re thinking but transparently articulating. The cost of micromanaging, of indecisiveness of your boss not responding to your emails in time when you have to spend disproportionate amounts of your time following up with them, pulling that to the fore and talking about it is oftentimes the only way it will change. It is much easier to complain to your spouse about it than it
Maria Ross 14:46
is your manager. Of course it is, yeah, but I
Elizabeth Lotardo 14:51
have never once complained to my spouse and had the other person change their behavior as a result of that conversation. Even
Maria Ross 14:57
zero effectivity, zero strategy.
14:59
Success,
Maria Ross 15:00
right? Yeah, well, and I love that too, because it’s also about, you know, when I talk to people about when you’re giving that feedback, whether it’s to a colleague or a manager, it’s also about, you know, even though I talk about empathy, taking the emotion out of it a little bit, and talking about, this is what, how this is impacting the work, this is how this is impacting what I do, and our chances for success, and if you’re able to even quantify it, that would be great. Like, for example, I took note last week of how often I had to reply to your emails about x. That was two hours of my week that was spent on that. And I don’t know if you realize that or not, but that’s two hours I could be spending doing the work. So this is a problem. It’s not just I don’t like it,
Elizabeth Lotardo 15:43
right, right? It’s not just personally frustrating to me, which does count for something. I mean, you deserve to feel minimal frustration at work, not no frustration at work, right, right. And back to assuming intent here a micromanager is probably a micromanager because they have someone’s foot on their neck, because they worked for a micromanager, because their team previously let them down. Someone is ghosting emails because they have too much to do. They’re dealing with a personal crisis. As an individual, you want to be able to move away from emotional reactivity into tactical maneuvering? How are you going to make this work, to get your stuff done? And you can’t do that if you’re coming at it from a place of anger and resentment.
Maria Ross 16:28
I love that. What say that again, move from emotional reactivity
Elizabeth Lotardo 16:32
to tactical maneuvering, and that is so much of leading yourself. It is moving away from all these other people in these stupid systems. And all of this is annoying, and I don’t know if AI is going to take my job into Okay, all of that is true, and what can I control? And only when we move to that place do we start to feel more energy and more power.
Maria Ross 16:52
So how do you get people past the like i Why do I have to deal with it? Why do I have to put so much energy into managing my manager?
Elizabeth Lotardo 17:03
That’s an interesting question, and I think you’ve probably seen this in your consulting practice too. Topics like empathy and purpose and impact and resilience often fall onto the shoulders of a manager. And what we know about managers now, compared to managers of 20 to 30 years ago is they have more people reporting to them. The previous generation a direct report list was usually five to seven. Now or 10 plus is the norm. They have things to do on top of being a manager. Previously, management was kind of the whole job. Now they have their own deliverables, their own reports, their own OKRs that their boss is holding an account too. So why do you have to do this? Because your manager probably isn’t, and whether that’s fair or not, you decide it doesn’t change the facts. If your manager isn’t doing it, you’re the one that’s going to pay the price. So the choice is, you step up to the plate and control what you can control, and you lead up and you make this work, or you have a soul sucking work experience, the choice is yours.
Maria Ross 18:04
So I would love to ask you a question, and this is kind of a curve ball to you, because we didn’t really talk about this, but you’re you’re a different generation in the workforce than I am. And I’m curious about this thing I’ve heard from generational experts that talk about with incoming talent generations. They’re not their lack of desire, but sort of their lack of knowing that you need to manage up like I I’m Gen X, and that was a mantra in my my early career, was if you can manage up and be very proactive to the needs of your manager. That’s one success strategy. That’s a way for you to get great performance reviews and to advance in the organization. Has that gone away? Because some people say it has. Some people say that with with incoming talent generations, that’s not a thing that they don’t they’re only sort of looking out for themselves, and not in a bad, selfish way, but in a that was just something they never learned. Was, Why do I have to worry about the person who’s more advanced than me? What do you think about that?
Elizabeth Lotardo 19:12
I definitely think you’re tapping into a shift, and whether it shows up in leading up or other areas, I’m not sure. But to me, I’m a millennial, and thankfully, now the clickbait headlines don’t focus on us anymore. They focus on Gen
Maria Ross 19:26
Z. You’re like, no, it’s your turn. Yeah, but,
Elizabeth Lotardo 19:29
but what I think has happened in the last 20 years, generations aside, is a few really important shifts in the way we look at work as a collective first, the recession. Millennials, my generation, we watched our parents, who devoted 20 years to some company, get fired. Am I going to do that? No, of course, I approach this with a What are you going to do for me? I don’t trust you. Dynamic, COVID. We watched a similar thing happen. We watched employers mistreat their employees. We watched some work in. Organizations rise. We watch them fall. But through all of that, we realized employment is not a guarantee. Your paycheck today might be gone tomorrow. So I think some of these, these world shaking events, have drastically altered the way we view work. The younger generation has oftentimes the economic freedom you know, they don’t have a mortgage, kids, all of these things that sort of behold you to your employer, in many cases, to voice those concerns and to bring it to the workplace conversation. I
Maria Ross 20:28
love that perspective, because, like again, I don’t think it’s a bad intention. I just think it’s sort of a workplace trope, truism that is no longer valid, that that people come into the workplace precisely to your point of seeing what the workplace has done to people. And I’m, I’m on the tail end of that, because I remember when I switched jobs in my 20s and 30s, I did have some people go, Well, you know, oh, you just got promoted. Is there no loyalty there? And I was like, I got promoted because of the work that I did. These people could turn around and lay me off tomorrow. Like, as long as I’m here, I’m going to do the best possible job I can, but I don’t owe them anything to stay if I have a good opportunity somewhere else. And that was sort of like shocking to people that I would say something like that, but I feel like that is actually the way it has gone, because we do realize, hey, we’re spending the bulk of our time in this workplace. It better be a place that’s meeting my needs and aligning with my values, the conversation
Elizabeth Lotardo 21:25
has certainly changed, and back to this pull through thread of leading yourself, leading yourself through your career, not just in the job you have, right? Yes, knowing where you want your next step to be, even if it’s not with your current employer and laying the groundwork to get there, even if they don’t know that that’s what you’re doing,
Maria Ross 21:46
right? And even if they’re not, you know, there’s some organizations that are doing a great job of investing in professional development for their people, and that is something that many of the studies say, for example, Gen Z is looking for in a workplace culture. Are you going to invest in me as a professional even though, you know, I might not be here forever. And I’m
Elizabeth Lotardo 22:03
sure you’ve seen that old cartoon where the CFO and the head of learning and development are talking, and the head of learning and development is like, we need training money, and the CFO is like, what happens if we train all our people and they leave? And the head of learning and development goes, what happens if we don’t train them and they stay. The organizations are wisening up
Maria Ross 22:26
exactly, and they’re understanding that, well, you want to get the best out of the people you have while you have them. And I spoke to I’ll put a link to her episode. Rhonda George Denniston is the chief learning officer at TBWA, and she talks about their amazing culture, where they completely understand they may only have these people for four to eight years, they are going to invest heavily in their professional development, because they want them to have the best professional experience they’ve ever had at their company, and also, while they’re at their company, be performing at their best. So it’s
22:59
a long game, talents, long game,
Maria Ross 23:01
right? And it’s also about like, well, we’re going to make sure you know what you’re doing while you’re here, and you’re not, you’re not creating a toxic environment. You’re not, you know you’re you’re communicating effectively. You’re doing your work effectively while you’re here, because that’s actually going to benefit the company as a whole, well. And if you’re
Elizabeth Lotardo 23:19
listening to this, being like that place sounds great to work. My job doesn’t provide me any learning opportunities. What I would say to you is, you are not powerless. Number one, have you asked for those opportunities? Raise your hand. Articulate. Hey, I want to go to this conference. Here’s what I’m going to learn. Here’s why it’s important to me. Here’s the business case. What I bring back to that. Have you take an initiative to leverage resources like LinkedIn learning, like Maria’s book, like my book, so much power is in your hands. You just have to learn to grip it. So if you’re sitting there being like, my company doesn’t have learning and development, we’re too small. Nobody cares about that. There are things you can do. The flip side is definitely toxic, toxic positivity to this. Like, I’m not trying to justify all the woes of a potentially shitty employer, but there’s always something within your control. Any sure about your job
Maria Ross 24:13
well, and that’s that whole I love that you took that around, because that was actually what sparked my thinking of that was that if you can take the reins on your own career and your own professional development, even if your company’s not providing it to exactly to your point, not every company is like TV WA. It doesn’t let you off the hook. If you know that that might be a path you want to pursue, or you know you need to work on communication, or you need to work on empathy, or you need to work on, you know, negotiation skills, whatever it is, you can find other resources to shore up your own professional development, back to your point of navigating your own career, because that’s a long game that’s sort of investing in you know me, Inc, as a company, as a brand. What do I want to do in my career, whether I do it at this workplace or a different. One
Elizabeth Lotardo 25:00
absolutely and again, I think a pull through in this conversation has been Stop complaining about everyone else, because they’re probably not going to change. Your systems will be inevitably annoying, because the way that that’s the way technology is, your boss will be forever imperfect, because that’s the way humans are. But you’re in the driver’s seat, and you can maneuver this situation in a way that works for you, right?
Maria Ross 25:23
And you know, this is based on a radio show, an NPR conversation I was listening to just before we got on this call. And I think it’s also about the manner in which you stand up for yourself. I think what gets some people in trouble, and I will just be frank, especially women, is that we come, we, we speak, we, sometimes some of us speak up for ourselves in a way that’s very confrontational, that’s already assuming negative intent, that’s already it’s sort of guns blazing. We go in there, and I’m like, You better send me this conference. And here’s why. But so it’s being able to tape us take a step back and like you said, like we were saying earlier, turning that emotional reactivity to tactical maneuvering of, hey, I’ve been thinking a lot about this, and this is a skill I really want to develop, and me developing this skill is going to benefit the team in x, y and z. What do you think about investing in this conference? Or at least if you’re not going to giving me the time off, the paid time off, to go and invest in this conference. So we also want to work on our, I guess, our empathy in the interaction of asking for what we want, and not always come at it of like I’m going to come in and demand because that never goes over well with people.
Elizabeth Lotardo 26:36
It never does. But in defense of womankind, I do think we have been one, shot down many times, probably unjustly, where we sort of guarded up and brought this charge to a situation that might not warrant it. And two, the conversation collectively around confidence and being assertive, and so much of that narrative can be summed up by act like a man, but it doesn’t work. If you’re a woman, you’re never gonna be as good of a man as a man, yeah. So taking the approach of empathy, first, of marveling in delight of I’m so excited about this opportunity, I can’t wait to bring these things back to the business. I hope you’ll support me in this and that Invitational tone can make a world of difference.
Maria Ross 27:23
Yeah, and I’m not saying we like pussyfoot around it, and we have to come in all meek and like, oh please, sir, can you please send me to this conference? But I think that there’s a method of being able to navigate our career and ask for what we want, where we don’t have to swing the pendulum completely the other way to where it’s confrontational, demanding, and I know, you know, I’m probably going to get a lot of ads from this, but I just, I really believe that we have to just make room for the fact that everyone’s going through something. And you know, like you said earlier, that that sort of empathy for your leader and for your manager is coming in and coming at it from a place of collaboration and mutual benefit versus I just want what’s mine, like, kind of attitude, because that, you know, it’s like, well, great, I want what’s mine too, but I’m not getting that right now. So really coming at this, navigating your career and being confident and asking for what you want, but making sure you’re asking for what you want in a way that both people can walk out winning from the conversation. Absolutely
Elizabeth Lotardo 28:25
leading yourself is not synonymous with and leave everyone else in the dust, right? Humans are a social species. We live in communities, we work in tribes, we gather in fellowship. You need other people, even when you are focused on controlling your own individual part of that I I think leading yourself can work in harmony with having a good relationship with the people around you, because if you think about the relationships you have most valued over your career, whether that is a manager who always supported you, whether that’s A colleague who was always, you know, happy to help, always really creative, really smart, whoever it is, that person was probably owning themselves. They weren’t lamenting in all of the things that were wrong all of the time. As funny as it can be to, you know, joke about the office like there’s all these sitcoms, literally the office. There was that movie about all the people who conspired to kill their Horrible Bosses, like as as sort of kitschy and hilarious as that can be, it oftentimes leaves us feeling worse, because we feel completely out of control, that all of these things are just happening to us. But when we step into what we do, own, what we can control and how we can influence in our organization. It might not be as funny, but it feels a lot better in the long run. I love that.
Maria Ross 29:47
Okay, I want to leave off with one last question, because I know we’re talking about and I always like to acknowledge this, even when I’m I’m giving keynotes or leadership trainings about having agency over when it might be time. Into part ways. You know, we can. We can always do. We can do what we can. We can lead ourselves. But then you have to also have an honest conversation of is, is this workplace and this culture aligned with my values and what I need in my life right now? And you may have to make a decision where the workplace is not going to change. They’ve decided what their business structure is going to be and who their leaders are going to be, and now you get to make a decision on whether you stay or you go if you are privileged enough to be in that position. So for people who can’t just walk away right now, what are some tips you have for making the most of the job that you’re in, even if it’s not your dream job, and even if you’re trying some of these techniques, but they don’t seem to be, quote, unquote, working. So if
Elizabeth Lotardo 30:45
this job is not your dream job, if it is a stepping stone for you, if it is simply a means to pay your bills on time and support your family, that’s okay. Don’t let the LinkedIn bros convince you that every single day has to be this magical, purpose driven experience, because it might not be. What you’re going to do instead is you’re going to look for small moments of meaning, small moments of joy and small glimpses of an opportunity. We’re not going to take this job that you hate into a job that you absolutely love. That’s probably not possible, but we can work on making it tolerable for the meantime. And you always want to be shifting back to what can I control? If you like, one tiny element of your to do list, you’re going to start with that and give yourself some energy to get through the day. If you really enjoy one of your colleagues, you’re going to invite them to more of your meetings and try and buoy that for yourself, there are always these small elements that taken together, can make a major impact on how you feel at work. Will they be transformative to a job that sucks? Probably not, but they can make it suck a little less. So don’t let this notion that you have to find your dream job before you can be happy get to you that’s not the case. You can find small moments of happiness and a job that’s okay enough and support your family in the meantime,
Maria Ross 32:07
right? I think it all gets back to you know, what? What are you trying to accomplish? What’s your own personal purpose and mission, and what is the role of this job within that larger story right now? And like you said, I love what you said about this idea that maybe this is just a stepping stone, maybe this is just a way to pay the bills right now and just reframing our mindset to be more realistic about what we get. You’re so spot on about the LinkedIn bros. By the way, we don’t always have to be like following our bliss and living our purpose and buying jets like that’s not most 99.9% people’s reality. So this has been such a fun conversation. Elizabeth, thank you so much for sharing your stories and your insights with us. I hope everyone will check out the book leading yourself finding more joy, meaning and opportunities in the job you already have, despite imperfect bosses, weird economies, lethargic co workers, annoying systems and too many deliverables, thanks for your time. Today, we’re going to have all your links in the show notes so people can find you. But for anyone on the go, where’s the best place they can connect with you or learn more about you,
Elizabeth Lotardo 33:15
search me on LinkedIn at Elizabeth lotardo, I put out new content every week,
Maria Ross 33:19
wonderful. And like I always do my public service announcement for LinkedIn, make sure you send her a message that says you heard her on this podcast so she doesn’t think you’re trying to sell her something. Elizabeth, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate you. Thanks for having me, and thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the empathy edge. Please. If you liked it, you know what to do, rate, review, share it with a friend or a colleague, and until next time, please remember that cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind. For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy. Visit the empathy edge.com there you can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice. Maria, never forget, empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place and.