Some conversations linger long after the recording stops; the conversations that deepen your humanity and reshape how you think about leadership. This episode is one of those conversations.
Ashley Jones knows grief in its most devastating form. When her daughter Skylar died from a terminal illness just before her second birthday, Ashley was thrust into a darkness no parent should ever face. But through that unimaginable loss, she discovered a calling: helping people heal in grief.
Today, Ashley shares her personal story and what her healing journey revealed about grace, resilience, and the power of community. We discuss the four survival reactions to trauma – fight, flight, freeze, and fawn – and how these can manifest. We also dive into the relationship between trauma and grief and how leaders can support those around them during these times.
Trigger warning: In this episode, we both talk about experiences with sexual assault.
Ashley shared incredibly valuable tips and resources to help you become a more trauma-informed leader and support your team to their fullest potential.
To access the episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Listen in for…
- Ashley’s personal story and what her healing journey revealed about grace, resilience, and the power of community.
- How leadership is evolving to become more deeply human—and the distance we still need to travel.
- Why grief is a universal leadership issue, and what it asks of us.
- The two fundamental needs people have after experiencing grief or trauma, and how to meet them.
- The four survival reactions to trauma that leaders need to understand.
- Why not all grief is traumatic, but all trauma includes grief, and what that means for how we support people.
“It’s really about choosing love regardless of the situation, regardless of the people involved. To show up and say, ‘What is the best way I can love myself and others right now in this moment?’” — Ashley Jones
Episode References:
- How Can I Love You Better: howcaniloveyoubetter.com
The Empathy Edge:
- Stephanie Sarazin: What Is Ambiguous Grief and How To Show Up
- Ron Gura: How Technology Helps People Navigate Grief and Loss
- Katharine Manning: How Trauma Impacts Performance – and What Smart Leaders Can Do
About Ashley Jones, Founder, Momento Foundation:
Ashley was thrust into the depths of grief when her daughter, Skylar, died from a terminal illness just before her 2nd birthday. Her unique experience through darkness and healing led her to create the Momento Foundation (formerly Love Not Lost), a nonprofit on a mission to help people heal in grief. Known for creating innovative tools, new resources, and meaningful solutions for navigating grief, Ashley provides individuals and organizations with tangible help to better support themselves and each other through trauma and loss. She’s a sought-after TEDx & keynote speaker, author, and passionate plant mom.
Connect with Ashley:
Momento Foundation: momentofoundation.org
Author Site: www.ashleynicolejones.com
Book: When You Can’t See the Light
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ashleynicolejones
Facebook: facebook.com/momentofoundation
Instagram: instagram.com/momentofoundation
Momento Community: momento. impact.app
Connect with Maria:
Get Maria’s books: Red-Slice.com/books
Hire Maria to speak: Red-Slice.com/Speaker-Maria-Ross
Take the LinkedIn Learning Courses! Leading with Empathy and Balancing Empathy, Accountability, and Results as a Leader
LinkedIn: Maria Ross
Instagram: @redslicemaria
Facebook: Red Slice
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Maria Ross 00:00
Welcome to the empathy edge podcast, the show that proves why cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host, Maria Ross, I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy, from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society. It’s great for business. There are conversations that linger long after the recording stops, the ones that deepen your humanity and reshape how you think about leadership. This episode is one of those conversations my guest today, Ashley Jones, knows grief in its most devastating form. When her daughter Skylar died from a terminal illness just before her second birthday, Ashley was thrust into a darkness No parent should ever face. But through that unimaginable loss, she discovered a calling helping people heal in grief. Ashley went on to create the momento Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to offering innovative tools, compassionate resources and meaningful solutions for navigating trauma and loss. Her work now equips individuals and organizations with the skills to support themselves and each other through the hardest moments of being human. She’s also an author sought after, TEDx and keynote speaker who blends wisdom with warmth. In our conversation, we explore Ashley’s personal story and what her healing journey revealed about grace, resilience and the power of community, how leadership is evolving to become more deeply human and the distance we still need to travel. Why grief is a universal leadership issue and what it asks of us. She’ll share the two fundamental needs that people have after experiencing grief or trauma, and how to meet them in your personal life or in the workplace. She’ll also share the four survival reactions to trauma, not just the three we typically hear about that leaders need to understand. And we talk about why not all grief is traumatic, but all trauma includes grief, and what that means for how we support people. And a trigger warning. In this episode, we both talk about experiences with sexual assault. Ashley shared incredibly valuable tips and resources to help you become a more trauma informed leader and support your team to their fullest potential. This episode isn’t just about loss. It’s about leadership. It’s about compassion as a skill, and it’s about choosing to show up for one another in ways that build trust, dignity and true connection. Take a listen. Big. Welcome. Ashley Jones to the empathy edge Podcast. I’m so excited to share your story with my listeners and the work that you do at Memento foundation. So welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. So before we get going, as I do with all my guests, let’s hear your story and how you got to this amazing work. And I know it’s a very poignant and personal one, and I would just really appreciate, and I know my listeners will appreciate if you can share it with us
Ashley Jones 03:40
today, absolutely. So my husband and I married young. We weren’t planning on having kids for a little while, but we got surprised with the pregnancy, like, a year into our marriage, and so we kind of just went forward, like, Okay, we’ll be really young parents, and by the time our kids are in high school, we can still go skiing with them and hiking, and it’ll be fine, right? So we had our daughter healthy bill of health, told to go home as a family of three, enjoy each other. And then at one month old, we noticed something wasn’t quite right, and her right arm came up like a chicken wing. And I had volunteered as a high schooler at our local elementary school with severely handicapped kids, and it was a part of like a peer mentorship program, and I noticed that my daughter’s chicken wing kind of looked like a contracture that I saw in the cerebral palsy, you know, situation where I was like, huh, but I knew my daughter could track with me and was mentally there. And so like, well, it’s not cerebral palsy, but what is it like? Why her arms stiff? And if I pull it down, it just naturally comes back up without her seeming to control it, right? So I was like, Okay, maybe like, and I’m thinking, like, the worst that I’ve seen is, you know, that kind of disconnected child that you know has all these ailments that it’s like, okay, in my mind, worst case scenario is like a lifetime of physical. Therapy, maybe some surgeries, like, you know? Yeah. So I’m preparing myself for that, right? And I’m like, Okay, we’re just gonna do therapies and play and surgeries or whatever we need to do. And so we go to the doctor. He sends us to a specialist. The specialist comes back and is like, oh, man, it’s not good, but doesn’t say what? And then I get a phone call 30 minutes later from the pediatrician, who’s like, it’s really not good. And I was like, Okay, what are we talking like? You’ve got to tell me worst case scenario, or my mom brain will just be, like, causing anxiety forever. Yeah? Like, I need to know, like, just, what is it? And so the doctor comes back, and he’s like, premature expiration. And I was like, You mean death, yeah? Oh my gosh, tell me straight, right? Yeah? And he was like, yeah, it could. It looks like it’s going to be one of five things. They’re all lettered, acronym, you know, illnesses. And at the time, we didn’t have smartphones. So he was like, if you make the really bad decision to go home and Google these. Here’s my cell phone number, personal cell phone number. You can call me anytime. Uh huh. And I was like, Oh, my God, it must be terrible, because there’s no way a pediatrician would give a first time mom cell phone number, cell phone number, right? So I go home, I google and she has every symptom for SMA, which stands for spinal muscular atrophy. It’s really similar to Lou Gehrig’s disease, so muscles degenerate and there’s no cure, and the severity depends on how early they present symptoms. And because she was showing symptoms within the first month of life, we knew it was pretty severe. In those cases, it’s very unlikely that babies who show symptoms that early see their first birthday. So we knew our time, you know, we’re just on a timer here, and how can we give her the best life possible? So through that we did, we tried to give her the best life possible. We, you know, set out to find the best care team and the best hospice team and supported her through, you know, she was on hospice at first, but 10 months old, and then ended up not having to say goodbye until 21 months old. Oh, no, yeah, we had a researcher step in and really change the trajectory of her life at 10 months old, right? So through that, though, we were the first, because we were so young, we were the first of all of our friends to get pregnant. And at 25 years old, I didn’t know what the heck I was doing. And it was 27 when she died. And so it was one of those like, Wow, I’m so young I don’t know what to do. I’m looking to adults. Who I mean adults? I am an adult, right?
Maria Ross 07:41
Yeah, yes, hopefully older and wiser, yeah, yes.
Ashley Jones 07:43
And they didn’t know what to do. They didn’t know what to you know, I look like a alien with a third eyeball in my head, like people are just looking at me like, oh gosh, what do I say? What do I do? Yeah, like, run the other way. So then, and, of course, like all of our friends, they’re young and experienced, and they’re like, terrified and shocked and experienced and don’t know what to say or do. So we lost a lot of friends and support through that time period. But the, you know, the most special people who stepped up were the people who came with empathy and said, Oh my gosh. Like, I lost my you know, parent or sibling or whoever. Right? Like, I can’t imagine what losing a child is, but I am. I know what deep grief is, and so let me bring you a meal. Let me take your dog for a walk or whatever, right? Yeah. And so I just realized, like, one, our society has a really big problem with not knowing how to deal with grief. And then two, no one’s teaching people what to do, right, right? We’re not solving this problem that is just rampant in our society, right? People being so afraid of loss and grief and saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing, which just ends up isolating everybody, right? Yeah, so through that loss, you know, it’s kind of like a little bit longer story, but we had someone had given us a portrait session with our daughter when she was still here, and those photos were instrumental in getting me through the grief, but also maintaining a connection with my daughter and allowing me to heal. And when I say heal, it’s not like healing from a wound per se, in that physical sense of healing, but like integrating my pain in the emotional sense, so that I am still whole and healthy and able to be my full self, right, right? And that connected version of myself, instead of the disconnected or fragmented, fractured version of myself, right? And so I wanted to give that gift to others. And as a photographer myself, I started volunteering portrait sessions to anyone I heard of facing a terminal diagnosis, because I was like, if we know time is short, let’s take advantage do it. Yeah, like, let’s make these memories and give you these photographs. Ask that will hopefully help you and everyone else who loves this person who’s dying. And that’s what started love, not lost. The nonprofit that you know was focused on preserving memories, and we’ve expanded it and rebranded to Memento Foundation, giving, obviously families mementos and making the most of every moment that we have, but also expanding to provide grief support and resources to start the education side of things, right? How can we do better? I mean,
Maria Ross 10:31
there are no words, right? That is such a poignant story. And thank you for sharing that with us, absolutely, and thank you for publicly sharing it. Because I think the more that we publicly share and name grief as one of the many emotions that we feel as human beings. I was just talking to someone this week about the fact that it’s such an elementary component of emotional intelligence to just be able to name an emotion and recognize that it’s happening. And I feel like grief is something everyone wants to sweep under the rug. It’s like something where they feel like they can catch it or something I don’t know, yeah, but it also I again, kind of my empathy comes through having had personal experiences around people not understanding what I was going through with my brain injury, for example. But I also am empathetic because people are also afraid of saying or doing the wrong thing to make your pain worse, and I think that’s where the avoidance comes in. Of like, I don’t know what to say, and if I say something wrong, that could be worse than me not saying anything at all, of course. And you know, I know you know this show is about the workplace, but we have people in our workplaces that are dealing with these kinds of losses, and just because we can’t see it, just because they’re physically fine and they’re potentially showing up to work, it doesn’t mean there’s this tumultuous storm going on inside of them, yeah, impacting their performance and their ability to connect with the people that they work with and people that they care about. So tell us more about your view on where we are as a society dealing with grief, and has it gotten better? Because I know and I’ve connected you with two people I’ve had on this show that I’ll link to in the show notes, Stephanie, Sarah and also Ron Gura of empathy, who are doing great work around removing the stigma of grief, but also providing support mechanisms. So before we dive into specifically how Memento supports people, where’s kind of your thought leadership perspective on where we are in terms of of navigating grief, and maybe even just, you know, I know different countries and different cultures deal with it differently. So maybe just talk about Western culture, North American culture. Like, where are we with that? Has it gotten better or worse? Like, where do you see things?
Ashley Jones 12:52
I do think there has been progress, right? Because back in my parents generation was like, literally, like, if you come to work, you’re leaving everything else out the door. Do not talk about your feelings. Do not talk about anything else going on in the world. It’s like, you show up that you have your work life and your personal life, and there’s a hard line, right, right? And you’re like, Okay, theoretically, I get why leaders back in the day would say that, right, especially because a lot of those leaders are male and weren’t taught how to express emotions. And it was very much like, man up, don’t, right, don’t talk about your feelings. That’s for sissies, right? And so there is, like, a gender role there. But then also, you know, I think what’s so, you know, I have so much, like empathy, and honestly, just like pity, almost, for the older generation, because they had to do everything with just the resources that were right around them, right? Like, they did not have the internet to teach them better, yeah? So it’s like, if they didn’t have an amazing therapist, if that was even allowed, you know, exactly, yeah, like, if they didn’t have helpful resources in their community, they didn’t get to grow and, you know, and process, right? And, yeah, the support or the tools or anything, right? And so I do think we’ve gotten so much better because of the internet, because we are our capacity for knowledge and understanding and growth has just completely expanded, right? So I think that’s a beautiful thing, and has allowed a lot of people, myself included, to grow beyond what my parents and what my community could offer me, right, where I can learn from trauma experts and amazing psychologists. And you know,
Maria Ross 14:36
where that’s even a thing, where trauma experts is, or even a thing, right?
Ashley Jones 14:40
Like, so good, yeah, and so all that to say, right? There is so much more work to be done, right? Like, why are our court systems not trauma informed? Like, that is where and police officers and first responders and the places where there is literally trauma every day, yeah? Like, why do we not have. Those trauma informed places that said in the workplace, I do feel like leaders are growing and realizing that there is an emotional component to work and people are human, and so if people are human, we cannot ask them to leave a personal side of their being at the door, right, because we are whole humans, and whatever’s going on at home does impact us and how we show up at work, right? And so the good news is, I do feel like there’s a lot of progress. I still think there’s a massive lack of training in leaders for training leaders how to manage grief, how to manage hard, challenging situations, like how to support a team through a tragedy, yeah? Like, no one knows how to do that, right? No. So leaders are falling short, and there are still really toxic work environments where people aren’t allowed to share what’s going on in their personal lives, or they’ll get fired, or, you know, like, whatever. So there’s lots of situations that are ripe for opportunity.
Maria Ross 16:06
That’s a very optimistic way of looking at it. Yeah. I mean, I know that. You know, I’m thinking about decades ago, there was a tragedy in a startup I was working for. One of our execs, and his girlfriend died in a plane crash coming back from vacation in Mexico. And the team, you know, everyone found out we were pretty close, because we were in a startup, working, you know, all the time together. And the one thing that was beautiful that they did was they did bring in a grief counselor, which, at the time, was very progressive, right, yeah, because this was, like, early 2000s this wasn’t, you know, this was decades ago, yeah, and, but then it stopped, like, that’s where it stopped, because, and not for any ill intent, but just, what else do you do? Right? And so those leaders sort of learned by fumbling through how to keep their team motivated and inspired. And but you’re absolutely right, this idea of sort of upskilling and training leaders to deal with trauma, and I’m going to put even more links in the show notes to other guests I’ve had who’ve talked about being a trauma informed leader. So that might be a great place to start for folks listening. Is, what does it mean to be a trauma informed leader or a trauma informed workplace? Yeah.
Ashley Jones 17:22
So I think that being a trauma informed leader is acknowledging that the people working for you and with you go through trauma throughout their life, right? Yeah. And when you experience a traumatic event, your nervous system goes into survival mode, and what that looks like is, sometimes it’s fight, sometimes it’s flight, sometimes it’s freeze, and sometimes it’s fawn, right? Those are the four main I didn’t know there was a fourth one. Now, yeah, so fun is a new one. Tell us about these four. Yeah, give us a brief revisit. Fight and flight are the ones we know fight, right, go in or you run away, right? Like, throw punches, or take off running. Uh huh. So the freeze is actually a really common one that is hard to diagnose. Like, a lot of people beat themselves up for it, because they’re like, gosh, I’m just so lazy. And why can’t I do this stupid simple task, right? Like, be this hard? And like, Yeah, I can’t even just make one phone call, right? Yes. And it’s like, okay, you might be in freeze mode, right? Like, so freeze is like not being able to do things, and you just freeze like a deer in headlights, right? Yeah. So it’s kind of like that, right? The fawn is very much like a survival instinct, for example, like, when someone’s getting attacked by someone, they know, uh huh, there might be this response of, oh, I can’t anger them, or they might come after me harder. So it’s just saying what you need to say to survive the incident, right? And to people, please, yeah, yeah. Like, for example, like, this is a personal share. I was sexually assaulted. And during the sexual assault, I went into freeze mode, because I was like, This guy is huge, huge. Like his biceps were twice the size of my thighs, right? Like he’s a personal trainer, former soldier in Afghanistan. Oh my gosh. Huge guy. And I was like, I’m basically dead, right? If I try and fight, I can’t fight, because this guy will crush me and break me and whatever. So I was like, I can’t fight, and I can’t get away. I can’t flee. So my body literally just went into freeze mode. And then afterwards, I was able to, you know, get away from the situation peacefully. But I had to be kind, because I wanted to fully get away, yes. And so I was like, Oh, okay. Bye, like, you know, it was, like, so awkward. And it was like, yeah, oh my gosh. Like, why did I just do that, right? Why was I, like, like, polite, right? Bye, like, right? And I realized, like, my body was surviving because I didn’t want to anger. Him, or make him think that I was going to press charges, which I did, right? Because I was like, I just have to get out of here. I’m going to go on attack, right? Like, yeah. I just need to survive, yeah. So obviously, in the workplace, hopefully that is not the extreme situation that’s happening, right? But it could be an angry boss that you’re just like, okay, like, Oh yeah, that project looks so good. Or like, yeah, yeah. Like, that timing works out great, even though it’s going to cause chaos in my life, you know, yeah. And so you’re telling them what they want to hear exactly, exactly, yeah. And so. So those are the four main survival functions and instincts of when someone goes into a survival mode, trauma response, wow.
Maria Ross 20:44
That is so enlightening, because we I had a workplace years ago where the there was a joke, and actually, this wasn’t even like the worst workplace I’d ever been in, but there was a joke about when the bear attacks go limp, like just and more, not from an assault or a trauma perspective, but just sort of almost like an argumentative like, at some point it’s not worth your you know your your body’s telling you this is not worth your time. Yes, it’s not going to go anywhere. So just tell them what they want to hear and then move on. Right? And to think of that in terms of a trauma response is so heartbreaking and and yet it makes so much sense, because, similar to you, I survived a potential sexual assault, and I remember my my first instinct after fear was just to calm this person down so that I could get out From so it was like, Can I get you a glass of water? Can I, you know, let’s sit down and talk. Let’s, I just wanted to, like, calm the person down so that I could get away right, right? And it’s amazing that that, I mean, that is, it’s such a survival instinct. And what can that look like when someone’s dealing with grief, is that even a reaction? Is it that you’re just telling the person you’re okay, and you’re trying to, like, make them feel better? Like, what? What does that look like in terms of being a response to grief?
Ashley Jones 22:14
Um, I think sometimes it is just being like, Yeah, I’m fine, I’m fine, I’m fine, I’m fine, yeah. How are you Yeah, I’m fine, I’m fine, I’m fine. Yeah, you know, the interesting thing about grief is that not all grief is traumatic, right? So there are griefs and instances of grief where you might lose a grandparent that you knew was getting sick and being you know, and it was their time, healthy, family dynamics, yeah, and everybody was supportive. And so then it’s like, okay, that was a grief, right, but it was not traumatic, right? But I will say all trauma does include grief, because even in an instance like our situations with the sexual assault or attempted sexual assault, it’s like there is a loss, there’s a sense of safety that was lost, a sense of what you thought was okay in the world, like the values and like all trauma includes grief, but not all grief includes trauma.
Maria Ross 23:16
So that’s so powerful. I mean, not all grief is traumatic, but all trauma does include grief.
Ashley Jones 23:21
I Yeah. And I go into a lot of this explaining in my book that I have it which, yeah, tell us about the book real quick. Yeah. So it’s a, it’s a book called when you can’t see the light, and it’s a trauma informed guide to surviving a significant loss. Wow, yeah. And so I really, and so back to the leadership side. Part of supporting your team through trauma and being a trauma informed leader is understanding what it means to help people feel safe and give people control. So those are the two things in trauma that are I mean, there’s a lot more that’s taken away in trauma, but those are the two main things when it comes to healing that are really, really critical for leaders to make sure is a possibility in the workplace. So creating the possibility for safety, so giving people a safe room to go into, whether that’s like a sitting room or a piece it’s just a peaceful, quiet room that everyone has a break, whether it’s a break room that is softer, lighting, more comfy, chairs, like whatever it is, right? Water, like meeting people’s basic needs for safety, right, which includes, like hunger and thirst and and those things, right? And then giving people control. So it’s like, maybe, you know, coming back from a trauma or a traumatic loss, it’s like, Hey, how about for the next six weeks? We give you control over your your where you work from? Yeah, you want to work from home for six weeks as you ease back into work? Do you want to go part time as you work back. In, right? Like giving people, do you
Maria Ross 25:01
want to take these tasks off your plate until you feel ready to tackle them again?
Ashley Jones 25:05
Yeah. And so giving people control and creating a sense of safety is so critical. And so anyway, in in the book, I, you know, my book is more of a guide to take people by the hand and and truly support them day by day through a loss. So if someone goes through a loss, the you know, one of the first things I talk about is just my own story and the empathy of just like, hey, this sucks. I am so here for you. And even if no one else shows up, you can take this book and we’ll go through it together, right? Yeah, and then we start with super basic needs, just like I talked about, like, hunger, thirst, like, like, how do you support yourself and handle yourself with care? Because you’ve been through a traumatic incident that has created significant wounding, even though no one can see it, right? So, right? As if we should be laid up in a hospital with bandages and casts and people serving us and waiting on us and taking care of us, uh huh. But because it’s a heartbreak, no one does right, or job loss, or a you know, whatever it is, the loss of a team member, the tragedy that that we deal with is so invisible, yeah, and so we don’t have a cast or crutches for people to be like, oh, we need to handle them with care, right, right? And the thing about covid that I really appreciated was the mask was such a universal symbol of, hey, we’re all going through something right now, right? Like, we all are going through trauma. And like, the mask was that symbol of like, hey, let’s handle each other with care, right, right, um. And so now that we’re kind of back to back to, quote, unquote, normal, yeah? Like, okay, where? What can we do to show each other that, like, Hey, I’m going through something. Please handle me with care. Yeah, yeah. So I talked about that in my book. We go through, you know, handling yourself with care. We talk about, you know, the flow of things like right flow of energy, setting boundaries. How do you, you know, just focus on one thing to get done today, right one and working your way back into productivity. We talk about emotions and understanding grief, and we go through the definitions of grief and trauma and all of that, and then really supporting people through that. You know, hopefully the transition to say all right now that you’re through hopefully the worst of it, right? We know how to process the emotions and the grief and all of that. Now let’s, let’s talk about self care and supporting ourselves through self care, we go through healing tools that can be resources for people, and then also kind of integration of, how do we now process this in a way that supports our health and wellness in that connected sense of healing? Yeah, so that we can be our best whole self moving forward. And how do we move forward and look outward instead of looking inward with that victim mindset? Yeah. And so it really walks people hand by hand. So if you’re a leader and you’re like, I don’t know what to do, get my book and read it.
Maria Ross 28:15
I was gonna say people should just have these Yeah, people should just have these books on hand for their teams, that’s right, in case that they need to provide that kind of support to somebody, and look through it yourself, so you know what’s there. And you know you can kind of get a an idea of what their experience might be, but that’s just a wonderful resource for like anyone listening, if you’re in HR, if you’re in employee experience or culture, or you lead a team. You know, have these books on hand to be able to provide a resource for people when you don’t know what to say and you don’t know what to do, right? Like, start there. You know, I mentioned it briefly before, but we talked about the episode I had with Ron Gura about his company empathy, and the strides they’re making with bringing almost grief benefits into organizations, into large organizations, like pairing and partnering with insurance companies to provide these these resources and these benefits to people. And really starting the conversation on this is another thing. If you want to be as cold as possible, it’s something that impacts your people’s productivity, which impacts your bottom line. So you should care about this, but from a moral and ethical perspective, it’s great. We want to be there for the people that we work with, right? We’re spending probably more time with them sometimes than our own families. So I want to talk about specifically what the nonprofit does, and also Memento foundation. So can I know you started the nonprofit first? So tell us about that first, and then let’s get into momentum.
Ashley Jones 29:50
Share the theme. So they just, I know they more, yeah, yeah. So love not lost. Really, was just focused on taking pictures for people. Facing internal diagnosis and providing family members with the at first we were doing albums. Now we’re doing custom photo boxes with a bunch of five by sevens inside really beautiful and and it’s been such a amazing tool to hear families talk about. Because with the album, what we realized was the album was just a solid thing that they could have on their coffee table or on their shelf or wherever, and they could pull it out and take it, you know, take a look at it whenever they needed to. But it was hard for people to share it. So families actually would tell us like, oh yeah, we sent the book on tour, and we’re just sending it to family, and trusting family passes it to the next family, and then hope it’ll get back to us. And I’m like, oh, that’s kind of terrible, like, the book get lost or, you know, right? And so we ended up giving them a large box. It’s a wooden box with their photo printed on it, full of five by sevens and nice. Then the five by sevens out if they want to share, but not lose the whole thing. That’s great, yeah, and so, so we, you know, really focused on that and figuring out, okay, how do we scale that? How do we get volunteer photographers to join us? How do we, you know, the send out the photo boxes in time, and all of that. And then we would hear families say, oh, man, that’s, that’s great. But, you know, I’m getting threatened at work with a performance improvement plan, and my husband’s on hospice, right? Like, how am I supposed to meet these goals when, like, my husband’s dying and I have twin daughters at home, right? And you’re like, yeah, that’s insanity, and that should never be the reality of a situation like, I am so sorry your boss is doing that. Yeah? And so we would hear these stories of families who are navigating these horrible, horrible situations of losing their person, right? Yeah, or even a child, and you’re like, I cannot believe this is your experience and that leaders are choosing to interact with you this way, yeah. And so that’s when I really started thinking, like, gosh, there’s gotta be something we can do. And same thing for the support tools. So people would say, oh, man, like, you know, we had all the support up front, but now it’s died down. Yeah. And only have like one or two people coming around to check on us? Yeah? Or, you know, this cancer has been going on for years, and everyone’s just kind of done supporting us, because their life has moved on, right? We’re still here with the cancer, and it’s getting worse, so we have more help, right? Yeah. And so, yeah, it’s so one of the first tools that we created was the How can I love you better? Com website, which was a site that I created, because a lot of times people will say, let me know if there’s anything I can do to help you. Yeah, or call me if you need anything. Right? And what people don’t understand, because that’s just such an easy phrase to throw off, right? Right? Is Like, one you’re not giving a timeline on that, so it’s like, Call me if you need anything. But do you mean that, like five years from now, or just five years from now, or just five minutes now? Right? Right? And then you’re putting the responsibility back on the grieving person or the person who needs the support, right, right? So, and then two, oftentimes, if people did make the call, it’s like there was no follow through. So it’s like, how can we solve for this problem? We have great technology. And so we created a simple email form. When you go to, how can I love you better? Calm, you can choose the relationship. So we made one for personal like, friendships, and then we also made one that’s more casual, for workplace relationships, where maybe, like, so it’s like, how can I love you better? Calm, I might not say that to a male co worker, right, right? Like, not
Maria Ross 33:55
appropriate. Like, how can I support you? Yeah,
Ashley Jones 33:57
exactly. And so we have that language shift that’s great. Like, I would send the How can I love you to my best friend. Best friend, and maybe the, how can I support you to the male co worker, right? Yeah, exactly. And so we have those two different kind of tracks. And you can offer a tangible thing that you are capable of following through on, yeah? And you can customize your list. And so that was one of the tools that we created. And then the other piece, as we’ve evolved into Memento Foundation, has been creating a learning library. And so that is really the education piece of okay, how can we create these very vulnerable, transparent conversations with trauma experts, with people and families who’ve gone through the loss to support one another and educate each other on what this could feel like. How can we do better? We have a series with Dr Jerome lovey, who’s a an incredible neurologist, Enneagram expert. He’s got, like, a. Me like several certifications that are way above my pay grade. Trauma Informed expert, like, yeah, all the thing, and we have a 10 part series with him on how do we use the Enneagram to support people through grief and trauma based on their Enneagram breakdown, right? So like in my Enneagram, like my highest number is a two helper, yes, shocker. As a helper, I don’t like asking for help, because I feel like a burden on other people, and I helping, right? And so for me, like my friends just know, oh, Ashley’s not going to ask for help, so we just need to show up and do stuff for her, right? Yeah, like, and so it’s really helpful, based on the Enneagram. And so when we rebranded to Memento Foundation, we launched the Memento collective, which is an online community where people can get the free Enneagram assessment. There are a couple other self assessment tools that there are free, and then that’s also where the learning library is, that you can check out the videos, and it’s amazing education tools that, with more funding, we will continue to build out and create exactly comprehensive, holistic approach to grief. I mean, this
Maria Ross 36:21
is all so amazing, and so this is why I’m so honored to amplify the work you’re doing. Because I think everyone listening needs to know that these resources are available. And I am going to have all the links in the show notes for people so that they don’t forget where to access all of these things, the links to Memento collective, to the community, to your website so that they can get their hands on the new book, which is beautiful, by the way. And so as we wrap up, what is sort of one golden nugget you can leave us with in terms of navigating grief for ourselves or for someone close to us,
Ashley Jones 36:57
I think the one thing that people fall into the trap of is choosing fear and for ourselves and each other, right? So, like, I’ve heard phrases when I’ve gone to support people that say, Oh, I can’t start crying, or else I’ll never stop, right? Yeah, or I’m so afraid to feel sad, because I’m afraid I’ll never feel joy again, right? Or I’m so afraid, dot, dot, dot, right? And I think when we go to support other people, that’s another comment we’ve already talked about, right? I’m so afraid I’m going to say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing, or make someone cry, or whatever. Yeah, my advice is to get out of the fear mindset, right? Because that will always lead you down the wrong path and choose love instead. So when we choose love, we’re supporting ourselves in saying, You know what? I need to feel sad right now. I need to cry right now, and I’m going to go find a safe place for me to do this, whether it’s in my car or my house or the closet or wherever, right? Yeah, to let that out and to love myself and give myself that experience and to stay connected with myself. Yeah, yeah. The same thing is of helping others, right? It’s like, I’m going to give this person permission to unload on me and say, yeah, hey, I’m here for you. You can break if you need to, right? Yeah, cry on my shoulder if you need to. I am here for you, yeah? And to not be afraid of crying, because some people are like, Oh, I’m afraid. I’m gonna make them cry. It’s like, well, yeah, of course, like their grief is just bubbling below the surface, right? Yeah, yeah, looking for ways to cry, and that’s actually giving them a really beautiful space to heal, yeah, because crying is feeling, and feeling is healing. And so if we can give people that safe space to feel their emotions, to stay connected, that is really such a beautiful gift to people, and so choosing love over fear and staying connected in the present, one of our values at Memento foundation is embracing the present with courage, no matter what it holds. Yeah, and sometimes that’s fear, right? And we embrace fear with courage. Sometimes it’s, you know, you’re walking into a situation where you have no clue how it’s going to go, yeah. And it’s embracing the unknown with courage, right? Yeah. And so it’s really about choosing love regardless of the situation, regardless of the people involved, right? To show up and say, what is the best way I can love myself and others right now in this moment, I love it.
Maria Ross 39:44
That’s such a great place to land. Thank you, Ashley, for all of this. I did want to ask one important last question, what is your daughter’s name? Skylar? Skylar? Wow. Skylar is responsible for all of this love and support you are bringing to so. Many people, so thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your story. And like I said, we will have all your links in the show notes, and especially the link to your website where folks can get their hot little hands on your book as a resource. And thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the empathy edge podcast. If you like what you heard, you know what to do. Please rate review and share it with a friend or a colleague, and until next time, please remember that cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy. Visit the empathy edge.com there you can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice. Maria, never forget, empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
