Welcome to Courage to Advance, hosted by Kim Bohr and brought to you by SparkEffect, in partnership with The Empathy Edge.
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Traditional Management Models Are Failing (And What Actually Works)
What if Gen Z’s approach to work isn’t just different, but better? Join Kim Bohr and Dr. Meisha Rouser as they challenge “kids these days” stereotypes and explore why traditional management is failing this generation.
Discover why questions about pay transparency and work-life boundaries signal evolution, not entitlement. Learn how leaders can adapt by understanding economic realities, setting clear expectations, and transforming feedback approaches.
Dr. Rouser shares practical leadership strategies to create meaningful growth opportunities that retain Gen Z talent while building more adaptive, high-performing teams.
To access the episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- Why the “pay your dues” mentality is driving away top talent
- How to transform feedback and development approaches for maximum impact
- The importance of clear expectations and boundaries
- Understanding the economic realities shaping Gen Z workplace needs
- Why challenging workplace norms isn’t entitlement but evolution
“This generation isn’t just challenging workplace norms – they’re showing us a better way forward. When they ask ‘why do we work this way?’ they’re not being difficult, they’re pushing us to create workplaces that actually work for everyone.”
– Dr. Meisha Rouser, PCC
About Dr. Meisha Rouser, PCC
Meisha is a recognized expert in organizational development, leadership, and change management with over 20 years of experience. She specializes in cultural transformation, executive coaching, and building high-performing leadership teams.
As an organizational psychologist, her research on Gen Z in the workplace provides groundbreaking insights for creating productive and meaningful work environments. She skillfully navigates organizational culture to ensure lasting impact and strategic success.
Meisha holds a Ph.D. in Leadership Studies from Gonzaga University, a Master’s in Organizational Development, and an Executive Leadership Certificate from MIT Sloan School of Business. She has worked with clients including HP, FujiFilms, Intel, Jackson Laboratories, and the U.S. Navy.
About SparkEffect
SparkEffect partners with organizations to unlock the full potential of their greatest asset: their people. Through their tailored assessments and expert coaching at every level, SparkEffect helps organizations manage change, sustain growth, and chart a path to a brighter future.
Go to sparkeffect.com/edge now and download your complimentary Professional and Organizational Alignment Review today.
Connect with Dr. Meisha Rouser:
Website: https://meisharouser.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meisharouser/
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FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Kim Bohr 01:27
What if Gen Z’s approach to work isn’t just different, but better? What if their insistence on work life, boundaries, and transparent communication is exactly what our organizations need to thrive in this modern era? Welcome everybody. I’m Kim Bohr, president and COO of Spark effect and the host of courage to advance podcast today, I am talking with Dr Misha Rauser, a recognized expert in organizational development, leadership and change management with over 20 years of experience and as an organizational behavioral scientist, her research on Gen Z in the workplace provides groundbreaking insights for creative, productive and meaningful work environments that we all can benefit from. Welcome Misha to the courage to advance podcast.
Dr. Meisha Rouser 02:16
Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here. I really appreciate this. So
Kim Bohr 02:21
I am so excited. You’re here with us, given your PhD, your expertise in organizational development, leadership, change management, I couldn’t think of a better person to have this conversation about Gen Z in our workplace and what it means for everybody. So you and I did some talking beforehand. We talked about, like, what are some of these? You know, way to to think about Gen Z coming in, and one of the things you and I really, definitely saw was like, this isn’t just one of these, you know, oh, the kids these days, you know, that’s that there’s kind of, there’s just enough phase they’re going through, or it’s really more transformational than that. And I want to really have our audience start off with you talking about how those old paradigms aren’t serving us well. And you know, really some of that generational theory that you’ve really put a lot of work into through your PhD and the studies you’ve done, so please dive in. Yeah. So
Dr. Meisha Rouser 03:14
it’s interesting, because everybody always talks about the new generation. Doesn’t matter. I mean, it could have been 20 years ago, right? And always saying, Oh, well, you know, they’re just being special, or we all had to go through the same thing. Yes, that is true. However, it is interesting that with Gen Z, especially, I am noticing, and I think there is a more of a difference. And so part of it, to put into context, a lot of people don’t quite understand when we talk about generational theory. So just really quick. I’m not going to go deep into it, but just really quickly, generational theory is about when we were being raised, when we were kids, and going through our young you know, even the kind of the Young Life of high school and such, what was going on in the world, what was going on, some significant things that impacted us, that it affects us and our beliefs and our behaviors, that will carry on. And so each generation, that’s why you’ll find too like the dates on generations, they kind of nebulous, in a sense, because it depends. So if you think about that, then with Gen Z, so one of the big things about Gen Z, but having to get to COVID yet, but the so the financial crisis. So when the financial crisis hit, a lot of them, you know, right around 2008 2009 and then that lingering effect a lot of them saw, if not their direct family members, friends, being impacted by that, losing homes, losing jobs, not being able to find work. So because of that, really influenced them. And then when we get into COVID, and that lot of them joined the workforce that also had an impact on them. So that’s what we’re going to be diving in today. Then is a little bit of, okay, yeah, what do they bring that’s unique, but also, as leaders, what can we be doing to help them in this transition?
Kim Bohr 04:55
So when you talk about those ranges that are a little bit nebula. Because I know my son is 18. He’s a freshman in college, so he’s in that generation Z. But what is roughly that range that we know is concurrently that people are experiencing in the workforce?
Dr. Meisha Rouser 05:12
Yeah, so I would say right around 1995 is when Gen Z starts. Now the next generation we will see. But I think they’re talking about, right about, probably around 2012 I think is what they’re talking because that’s going to be interesting too, to see the effects of that generation. But anyway, we’re just talking about Gen Z for today. But yeah, so right around 1995 and usually so I would say right now it’s about the 29 year old, 29 roughly, okay,
Kim Bohr 05:44
okay. So that’s a really significant for several, you know, for many people, they’ve could have been in the workforce for six to eight years already, in the post, maybe college type of experience. So that is, that’s a lot of there’s a lot of established workers already, potentially in this generation. So, you know, when we think about the what they’ve experienced, I mean, yes, you talked about, you know, the housing and things you talk about COVID, I think we should talk a little bit more about COVID, because even though we’re past it, you know, those were formative years for this generation, in a way that uplifted everything. And I’m curious what some of your the research you did were elevating some of those experiences of that generation, yeah, and because that was, um,
Dr. Meisha Rouser 06:31
it was really insightful for me, it gave me a lot of ahas in my research. And so one of the biggest things was the ones who, because my kids are they were just starting to enter the workforce when I did this research. And it was interesting than talking to those individuals who had been in started right out of college, and boom, now it’s COVID, and they’re working remotely, because, at least if you were in college, then you know, you got to adapt right where it’s like, oh, we’re changing now. We’re doing everything online. We’re now. Some of these folks were just thrown in and they’re like, Okay, I have no idea what I’m doing. I have I don’t even know what the proper, appropriate etiquette is to reach out to somebody, because that’s another big one that I realized was when all of us go into when we transition from either high school or what our college, whatever, into the workplace, that’s really where you learn professionalism. That’s really where you learn work ethic, right? And we all went through our times there, and that was something that a lot of these kids did not get. And so they’re struggling even to the point too, which I thought was interesting. I had this so my type of research wasn’t just a survey that went out fill out these generic things. My research was in depth conversation with a variety of Gen Zs, because I wanted to ask them not just okay, like, why is work life balance important to you? But why is that okay? So, going back to COVID, it was interesting. How many of them said it’s like, I feel like I’m behind, because they assume that, yeah, now, even though I’ve been in the workplace for two or three years, that I should know all this stuff, like, you know, getting insurance. What does HSA mean? How do I invest? You know? So it’s, it’s interesting. How much they’re still trying to catch up. Yes,
Kim Bohr 08:21
I could totally relate to that with my son, who you know was this happened in his I think it was last year of junior high into the first year of high school. And boy, did that just throw those key years of social interaction learning, you know, the social aspects of those awkward years, just in a complete, you know, upside down nature. And I know that a lot of the families that have had kids in the same age that we’ve talked about, it was the same thing where it’s been to your point, there has been some catch up to do with this generation to try to have them understand some of these nuances that they just didn’t get in those first couple of years. And of course, it varies from state to state where people live, which is in some ways kind of a challenge, right? Because it’s not, since it wasn’t uniform. In that way, we do have this even bigger gap of experience in this generation. So I’m really curious, too. You know, when you think about, you know, the technology, and this generation’s come up with technology in ways that generations previously haven’t. What is some of that that you’re seeing as the you know, that kind of came through the research as opportunity, or maybe some of the challenges with this generation too, from the contextual standpoint,
Dr. Meisha Rouser 09:34
yeah, it’s interesting, because where I want to go with that is more so that, like a lot of people, for example, with a technology has impacted how we communicate with them. It was interesting in my research, not really, they really. They love doing text messaging right, and especially if they’re busy and they’re in the middle of something, but they do want those person to person conversations if it’s something important, if. Something. They do want that connection. It felt like that was somewhat similar. What I did find was interesting, when we think about technology, was more so social media’s impact. So that one what was interesting, and that I actually my daughter kind of helped me piece that together. Because there was, I’m looking at this research, I’m thinking, some still not looking, and I was like, especially because it came to like, that work life balance, where on one side this generation is just, they really, at least the ones that I talk to are just ambitious. They want a chance to prove themselves. They want a chance to be successful. They want all of that, but yet at the same time they’re saying, Yeah, well, but I don’t want to have to work. I mean, you know, I’m not going to work 80 hours a week. And part of me is like, but where’s that disconnected? My daughter was the one. She’s like, Well, Mom, it’s social media. We are watching influencers from all over the world and that are doing all these things. And we’re like, well, I want to do that too. I was like, Oh, now that is where, I think is the big difference, too, where technology plays in. That’s a really important piece,
Kim Bohr 11:07
because we talk about the pros and cons, right, of that whole digital world we’re all now a part of. And I think, you know, there’s a lot of debate that’s probably for another conversation yet, in this world of expectation setting and breaking what previous generations have been thought about the norms to be. It really is, there’s it’s moving us in a whole different direction. So when we think about the some of the key differentiators, what are some of those things that have stood out that you found in your research, but also in the experience you have in organizations?
Dr. Meisha Rouser 11:39
Yeah. So the key ones, the one I like to address always up front is a little bit of, I still hear people saying kind of the entitlement thing with this generation, yeah. And here’s what I’ve learned with this with through the research, is, let’s just talk about pay, for example. So their loyalty to a company is not the same for them. This was consistent, too, is and especially now, I do gotta say that the people I talk to, most of them, went to college, so keeping that in mind, they’ve spent all this time, it was kind of like they’ve born and raised saying, You do all these check marks all through high school, and then you’re gonna do all these check marks when you get into college, and then you’re going to have this, you know, everything’s going to work out great. Okay, so we saw how that went, and then they’re stumbling their way in. But they also do feel like, though they have busted their butt to get to where they’re at. And so the entitlement is more of they want to feel like they’re making a difference. They want to feel like they’re growing. They want to feel like the company appreciates them and values them, and if they’re not getting that, then they’ll go someplace else. So I had, like a great example was, and this one gentleman, he did such a great job of explaining it. He goes, if I had a company that was going to offer me $10 more, he goes, now, yeah, is it worth going through all the hassles to change employers, all this stuff? And he goes probably not. But would I do it? Yeah? Because it tells me that that other employer values me more
Kim Bohr 13:10
interesting. Wow. Well, and I think let’s talk about that a little bit more, because what you know, what you and I have been talking about, what I’m experiencing with my son as a freshman in college is the prices are high. They trying to figure out how they can live. They’re so concerned, you know, my son is going to college in Montana, and he was so frustrated because he’s not a resident at the time, and he said, You know, I my vote can’t count on trying to bring forward more affordable housing, and this idea of not wanting to be reliant on us beyond what the bare minimum is as a driving factor for him, and yet he’s coming up against these realities that it’s like, how is he going to how do you bridge that gap? So the idea of higher pay starts to go into some basic survival needs, it seems Yes.
Dr. Meisha Rouser 14:02
And that was a really good point of a couple of things. There is that one, that thing where they do not want to have to rely on us. Every single one I talked to success to them was, I am doing this on my own. I thought that was interesting. That is very interesting. Even one of them who did end up was still living with his parents. His parents. But he’s like, Yeah, because if I want to be able to buy a house, okay, one that’s just out of the realm for most Gen Z’s right now. And he goes, I have to save up the money, and this is the only way I’m going to be able to do that. So yeah, the thing that, with the higher prices, the cost of living. It is hard on this generation, Yep, yeah. And
Kim Bohr 14:45
I think there’s, you know, the the generations before, of a mentality like you start off by saying, like, Hey, you you put in the hours, you put your head down, you do the work, you climb through. And that is such a disconnect from not only how this generation, you know, is understand. And how they’ve kind of come into this world, yet it’s also a disconnect of reality of like that. The numbers don’t add up. It just does not make sense. And so I think it’s a really great point to reframe for all of us around this. Isn’t that we shouldn’t be thinking of this as entitlement. We should think about this as them, literally trying to look out for themselves in a way of survival, basic needs, not having to be repelled, relying on their families needed beyond a reasonable amount of time. And so what I also thought was interesting was that where the loyalties come into play. And so I think what do you feel like you know the difference between some of the compensation that comes up with people and some of the needs? Were there some other things that came out in your research that feels like it kind of helps give some clarity to listeners or those in organizations who are leading Gen Z right now before we kind of start to dive into maybe, what are some of the things organizations need to be thinking about? Yeah, so let me mention a couple others. And you when you talked about loyalty, too, I thought that was interesting, so they may not have loyalty to the organization, per se, but they will have loyalty like I managers are a big deal to them. They, you know, if that manager is connecting with them, I was listening to some Gen Z podcast, and they’re even using the word empathetic management. Oh, I thought that was interesting too, because I had like, one woman who she’s, like, she was able to quit, and she was going on to get her master’s, and she had like, six or seven months, and she was but I couldn’t do it because I didn’t want to leave my manager. So there is that loyalty and that and so the influence of their relationship with their manager was definitely a make or break. The other thing that they really are needing is understanding what are my expectations? Because so many of them would say, Okay, well, here I have you know was doing sales. This one gentleman doing sales. He’s like so I had figured out. I knew what my quota was and what I needed to do. He goes. I figured out how to get there to the most efficient way, because I want to go mountain biking, I want to go skiing, I want to go to these other things, but instead of being rewarded, he goes. I’m given more work. I don’t get a raise. I don’t
Dr. Meisha Rouser 17:10
so they’re just like, What the heck? What are these expectations? How do I advance? What is expected of me? And then how am I going to grow? Because again, they also realize, like we were saying earlier, they need to keep making money. So how am I learning? What am I? How am I growing? What am I being exposed to? Those were also really big. I think
Kim Bohr 17:31
the the loyalties piece is so interesting when you think about all the research that you know, the Gallup research, and all the other organizations I’ve done research around, you know, people leave for their managers, and to see that is so important with this generation who’s asking for development, they’re asking for clear expectation setting, which isn’t always the sweet spot of leaders at times, especially, you know, perhaps earlier tenured leaders in roles managers. And I think that you know that is also really interesting to hear the, you know, if I can make it happen, it’s like, Why are you moving the goal post on me? That’s not what we agreed to. And that could create a lot of, yeah, a lot of tension and disconnect. So, you know, coming from your, you know, your background, and then and having this research behind you. You know, I think there’s you, and I have been talking about, what are there’s a lot that organizations can do, and it shouldn’t really be the cookie cutter approach to perhaps how it’s worked with generations prior. And so I’d love for us to dive a little bit into that and talk about, what are some of these things that organizations should really be thinking about. And I think one of the pieces that jumps out immediately is really like, what are the generational differences that managers and leaders need to be trained on? What are some things that have popped out to you that from kind of that worldly experience you have? Yeah, I would
Dr. Meisha Rouser 18:52
say with, like, with the coaching that I do with leaders, especially around the struggles they’re having with Gen Z, I’ve been finding it’s really helpful if, as leaders, any type of understanding that they can have around behavioral differences, communication styles, you know, so for example, like a disc or, you know, a Myers, Briggs, even, or even something of understanding learning styles. Are they visual, auditory, kinesthetic? A great example of that would be, for example, one woman I was working with, oh, she was just the sweetest thing and very empathetic, but was still having such a difficult time connecting with her employee, who was Gen Z, and we did a DISC assessment. I had them both do it, and that totally opened up. She goes, Oh my gosh. So when I thought what you needed to hear for clarity on expectations. I was giving it to you the way she was wanting it, not the way the other woman was. And so she was like, oh, as soon as I realized, oh, okay, let me explain it a different way, huge difference. And so they were able to make that connection. So that one’s also a big. One with feedback, because they want feedback, they want it timely. They want to learn. They want to know, you know, how can I grow and so forth. So also, how to give them feedback? Yes, understand who they are, because everybody wants it different. Yeah, I think that’s such a great point that I want to go a little bit deeper on. You know, when you talk about the assessments, one of the ones that I’m a huge fan of is the Harrison assessment, because it looks at it from a behavioral standpoint, right? And it pairs so nicely with understanding, even like when you think about the disc and some of these others,
Kim Bohr 20:30
it there’s a lot of complimentary nature to having that level of depth and understanding. And one of the things about feedback is I think sometimes we’ve construed feedback for being constructive, when really it’s both. And it think what, you know, I’ve heard from you and experience with my own son, is that they’re looking for more tangible feedback. That is both, you know, what should I be doing more of and what is more constructive, but not just a good, you know, attaboy, that’s really not that that feels hollow to them, and they sense it, and they don’t. That’s not what they’re looking
Dr. Meisha Rouser 20:59
for. Yeah, that’s a really good point. And that reminds me too, one of the other big ones. I one, and this is one of the things I love about this generation, and you mentioned it briefly in the beginning of the old paradigms, they love to ask why? And again, yes, I love that because it’s like, why, just because my manager is working 80 hours a week, totally neglecting his family. Why do I have to do that to be promoted? And they’re they’re asking valid questions that a lot of us have been like, Yeah, but we just kind of sucked it up and we’re just doing it because we were told to do it yes. And I really think this generation is finally like, okay, I get it. You all don’t want to do this. Well, let’s change it then, you know, I love how, like they’re bringing up 30 hour work weeks. We’re actually starting to do research into that. It works, yeah. So they’re getting us to think differently, to think of things in it from a different paradigm.
Kim Bohr 21:53
Yes. And I think that’s so important, because that is very, that is a very different trait from generations prior, and that, you know, many of us were taught you don’t question authority, you don’t quit, right? And that’s so counterproductive in adult life, in most work instances, perhaps, except the military, you know, but there’s, it’s really, it’s very challenging when you now have somebody who’s like, but I’m going to keep asking why, because I want to, you know, they need to have the it needs to make sense for them. And it so ties into the loyalty and the, you know, the engagement and all these other really important factors. So I think when we talk about some of the training, you know, understanding that feedback, what are some of the, you know, some just, it’s a skill set. And I think if managers don’t have it, organizations need to be investing in them with that skill set. You know, there’s other things too that you brought up, but I thought was so important around just some of the basic necessities, things that you know, you found through some of your own experiences that they’re just not they’re looking for and not getting in just some of that stuff to help them be more self sufficient love for you to expand on some of that too. Yeah.
Dr. Meisha Rouser 23:03
I mean, I would say it would be some of the, literally, the basic financial planning, you know, how to start saving up for a house if they even can, how to invest this one. This one’s a personal one, but, like, even my my son, so I was making sure. I’m like, okay, so you’re doing the 401 K that your employer offers. He’s like, Oh yeah. And then I was talking to him about something differently, and I realized are, you, did you go into that, whatever portal it is that your money’s in and invest it, make sure they’re investing it for you? And he’s like, No, it’s just going in there. Like, oh yeah, honey. You can invest that money. It can make money for you, little things like that. You know, again, benefits, work, life balance is a big one to help them how to do, you know, they knew how to do time management in college, but it’s different now. It’s different, yeah, so there’s those types of things and even. And here’s the other thing too, that, and it kind of goes back to the what with them always asking, Why is turn it around too? Remember, as leaders, we don’t have to have all the answers. That’s where our coaching comes in. Ask them, What do you think? How would you do this? What is it that you’re needing some help with? You know what it how would you do it differently with work life balance? Yes, I know you want to have your skiing vacations while also working. So how are you managing those? How can we do it so you can do both of those? Yeah, so just engaging them in those
Kim Bohr 24:29
Absolutely. So I think one of the things that also stands out to you, and maybe some listeners are thinking about this, is like, where’s the fine line between providing things that perhaps they should have gained, versus being in this work world and and I think, you know, I think you and I have a very, you know, probably a very similar perspective, like the work world has evolved to whole person, and yet, is there something there that you would be advising people to from that paradigm shift that’s needed?
Dr. Meisha Rouser 24:59
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And that’s I love it too, because we’re not saying, you know, just roll over and just let them, you know, be them, right? They love structure. Because, again, think about it, they’ve received a checklist their entire life. All I got to do is check this off. So provide that checklist. Here are your expectations. This is what I’m expecting of you. You can do it down to anything from the hours you’re expecting of them to how often you know that you want to be meeting with them. It could be everything from also how to get that promotion, because they want to know they they want to move towards it. The one thing I’ve seen that’s challenging though, that leaders have, and this goes back to understanding them and their own you know, way of how they learn, how they grow, how they communicate. You do need to communicate that in a way that resonates with them. So even though you’re giving, you know, the the templates, I like, I call it creating boundaries, and then total freedom within those boundaries. But they need to really understand what those boundaries are.
Kim Bohr 25:56
I really agree with that. I think the boundaries are huge, and I think there’s so much assumption in our day to day business world, where we think we hire very skilled people, and we think that they can figure it all out for themselves, and we do a disservice when we don’t actually create the boundaries. And sometimes I think leaders are uncomfortable with boundaries themselves, and so they don’t think about bringing them forward and the benefits of them. And so there’s some, certainly some reframing there. That’s opportunity. I think another thing that really, you know, stands out to me when we think about the paradigm shift is there’s all these edge cases that we hear about, you know, somebody’s mother went with them to an interview. And I think that we want to really caution people to not stereotype that into this generation. Because I know nobody in my, you know, network of this generation who’ve have that kind of approach, and so I would say, Please don’t bring that into what you’re thinking about, and saying that the whole generation is really of this nature, since we know it’s not, it’s really not so when we think about, you know, this idea of like, okay, so what can people do if they have, if they have, you know, people on their team right now, or they know that they’re hiring a workforce that this generation is very much, you know, filled with, you know, how do we think about giving leaders the ability to have greater capacity in their level of empathy, you know, understanding curiosity? What are some things that you know that come to mind? I know we started to talk a little about, about feedback. Is there some more things specifically that you’re thinking of from your own experiences too? Yeah. And thinking about, when
Dr. Meisha Rouser 27:31
I think of all the different types, is, remember that you know, so people are people. We are going to be different. We’re all wired differently. We’re all going to be taking information in differently. I think still, that is probably the biggest difficulty for leaders is, how do I do for example, some Gen Z, like all people are going to be more introverted, they’re not going to ask as many questions, and so forth. So again, coaching skills are huge, to be able to understand and to meet them where they’re at coaching. I mean, just the Grow coaching model is such a simple one to be able to help with that. Check ins giving feedback. How do they want feedback? I can’t tell you, there was a number. At least two of them say, okay, they think they’re giving me feedback by calling me out and saying how great of a job I did in front of the entire team, that just mortified them, and they were just Yes, you know? So it’s little things like that that you need to be able to ask them, not just like, how do you want feedback? Because some of them may not know. I’ve always found it easier to say, hey, when you’ve received feedback in the past that you felt like you did a really good job. Why did you feel that way? Right? Was it that you that your manager did?
Kim Bohr 28:40
Yes, and I think it’s what you just said, too. Is such an important nuance of recognition. People have varying degrees on that continuum of what recognition means. There’s the people who absolutely want to be on the stage, and some people are maybe just a simple thank you, and some people are just don’t even want that. They just want to be recognized through pay or through, you know, their ability to promote things like that, right? So I think it’s so important to actually ask, versus just assume that it’s going to be well received by everybody. I think you also talked about the regular check ins. I think that’s so important. And I in a, I do know, in the work, you know, we do from the coaching lens and the teamwork lens it is that’s often not as highly prioritized as a regular opportunity. And the other thing I’ve noticed is that oftentimes managers come in with their own agenda, and then they miss what is actually the most important thing that they should be talking about with their people. And so I think that’s something that for those listening and thinking about what is that regular agenda cadence, what should be included, so that it’s not just at them, but it’s truly a collaborative conversation. And you know, what are some other things that you know you mentioned, some of the clear, you kind of clear expectation setting. Is there anything else in that area you would want to make sure listeners are kind of
Dr. Meisha Rouser 29:56
keeping top of mind? Yeah. And you made me remember another. Big one that I’ll usually get asked a lot is, do they want to work collaboratively or not? And that one is, yes, both. And so they do like working collaboratively, and they do want to be an individual contributor, in the sense that they don’t want to be held back, also sometimes from working just in a group. So there’s a balance there too, of making sure that you can give them both space in both of those so
Kim Bohr 30:24
that kind of leads us into the reality of a hybrid environment that most organizations are still in. I know some are moving more towards in person, yet I think the majority are still going to be in this mixed kind of, you know, mixed media type of a space. So what are some of the recommendations you think listeners could really take in consideration when we have that kind of environment, because I would, I think you and I would agree that not all managers are effective in managing in remote environments, as they would be maybe if they were in person environment,
Dr. Meisha Rouser 30:54
yeah, oh gosh, okay, there’s one. They’re very comfortable with that, I think they are. They do like the in person when they can get it, but they do lean towards a hybrid environment or a remote environment, just so they could have better work life balance as some things. I did think, though that was very interesting, and this came back. So Gallup has always said, you know, like, what are those things that engage employees? And one is to have a best friend at work. Now, here’s what’s different for them. For Gen Z is it appears to be more of because they are online. They’re they’re communicating with their best friends. They’re there, right? So they have that already, but they do want that personal connection again. There was a few times they’re like, I want to know that these aren’t just, you know, I want to know who this person is, yeah, so to also create time, and that’s something that I think if managers could do more of that, especially if they’re in a remote environment of creating time where it’s not just all we jump on a call, it’s just all work, and we jump off, you know, to find all the different ways of how to connect as people as well. Yes,
Kim Bohr 32:03
and that’s challenging for I think I, for most organizations I think are still with that have a hybrid or fully virtual environment. I think that is a challenge to figure out. How do we bring that in authentically, especially when change is so constant, as you and I have talked about. So how do you is there anything in particular you would call out for people to think about creating that psychological safety in these more hybrid or virtual environments that you know maybe shifts at all for this generation? I
Dr. Meisha Rouser 32:33
mean, I think we’ve covered a lot of it already. You know, of understanding who they are, understanding the team being, knowing that you’re there for them, creating the space to hear, you know, what is it that they have to contribute to giving them, you know, the ability to chime in, asking their opinions when giving feedback with feedback, you want to also always make sure that it’s about the behavior or whatever it is they’re Doing, good or bad? Yeah, it’s not about the person, right? So that’s one thing. Always. Want to separate the two and give, you know, you want to give good feedback, in addition to opportunities for growth. You know, it’s all those things. If they feel like that you have their bat and that you’re trying, they pick up on that. I think that’s the biggest thing. And then anything you can do to help them out, just to kind of take them under their wing, you know, when they’re doing something, don’t assume that they know all these adult things,
Kim Bohr 33:28
yeah, and don’t take for granted that they don’t bring value. I think that was the other thing, you know, we think about managing those multi generational teams. I have heard of some organizations trying to be, although I don’t think this is mainstream yet, but trying to be more collaborative with this Gen Z and other generations to help knowledge transfer in different ways, knowing that the digital no man land that they are, they’ve come from, has a tremendous value. And so trying to not, you know, say, like, well, you don’t get it on either party’s part, but really trying to figure out, how does that look like that we could have more cross functional generationally learning and try to leverage one another in a more productive way there too,
Dr. Meisha Rouser 34:12
yes, because that was something too that they really, and this was consistent with everybody as well, is they value learning from as much as they can. And so some like so many of them, said, Yeah, I’m trying to meet with this one guy before he retires, because he just has this wealth of knowledge. And so that kind of goes back to a little bit also, what’s a little different, though, is that I don’t care if it’s their leader, their manager, a co worker, you’ve got to earn their respect if they’re going to really, you know, be respectful back. But so that’s one element of that that you just can’t like, you know, people were trying. And so many times it’s like, okay, we’re going to connect him and mentor, you know, a younger one with the old. Well, if they don’t receive. Respect that person is going to go out the door. And so you may even want to have that conversation of, you know, hey, I would love to get you connected with the mentor in the organization, help them to connect with that older generation. And then it’s great for the older generation, because they love it. Yes, they love sharing their information with others, and that’s
Kim Bohr 35:17
really and so it’s got to have that intentionality is really, key. So I think, you know, as we kind of start to wrap up the conversation, I think there’s we haven’t, we’ve maybe touched a little bit, but I think I’d like to be more intentional around let’s dive into some of the pitfalls that organizations need to and managers need to be thinking about so that they don’t, you know, have, say, have more undoing of behaviors than they, you know, want to have. So I know one thing that you know we’ve talked about is that, you know, over trying to not over focus on these ideas of perks, but that for things to be very meaningful and also to balance that growth opportunity for Gen Z in ways that that also can help them see where what they’re going to gain from it. So really trying to be more intentional and maybe more not just for it to be more again, well, meaningful, right? Yeah, what are some of the other things that you’ve maybe would kind of caution listeners around, yeah. So
Dr. Meisha Rouser 36:13
the perks, I think, are good in the sense of, recognize what the perks are really for. You know, like some people would mention pizza parties. They’re like, Okay, if the pizza party party was a reward because we worked all this overtime, no, but if the pizza party is an opportunity for all of us to get together and, you know, and get away from work and just that’s different, such
Kim Bohr 36:34
a good example. Oh, my goodness, that is in the intention, right? It’s the intent behind that is so big. I love that. I know, you know, another one is, you know that you mentioned it right, that clear structure and expectation saying, so really put the effort in which it does take more time, and yet it’s the return is going to be there. It’s going to be there for everybody. How would you say, you know, we talked about the economic challenges that you know Gen Z is facing. How could organizations, you know, we talked about some of the learning stuff, but is there anything else that they could do to kind of avoid that pitfall that’s going to have, maybe that generation turning over more and more, yeah,
Dr. Meisha Rouser 37:11
and so that one too, because a lot of times, yeah, the economic side of things, it’s out of a lot of our managers hands, right? It’s just, it is what it is. There are so many other things that have value for Gen Z that you could also add in there. You know, get them with a mentor they want to grow, you know, give them some training. Sit down with them and even mentor them. Give them a special project, ask them what else, you know, maybe even cross training. Maybe they’d be curious to do something. I mean, there’s so many ways that there’s value that you could bring to them, you know, maybe they want to work one of the days out, you know, instead of coming into the office three days a week, they want another there’s so many ways to so much value, yeah, that will help them stay in the organization. I love that. And I think
Kim Bohr 37:56
one of the last ones that you’ve really hit home too, is just the human connection part. So being authentic and finding those those ways for them to connect, not just with each other, but with others, you know, across the organization, is really key. So thought,
Dr. Meisha Rouser 38:09
I just thought of one more too. Yeah. Also remember, everybody’s wired differently, but knowing that they’re making a difference can also be really key for the majority of them, you know, so what is the impact of what they’re doing? And so if it’s just making somebody’s day, they’re like, Okay, there was meaning behind that. That’s yeah, remember too.
Kim Bohr 38:32
That’s so important, not just for this generation. But I think we do make assumptions that everybody knows, like, Hey, you come to work, and then here’s our values and mission on the wall, and like, you make the connecting points. And obviously that’s a big disconnect for some. And I think just being able for people to say, like, why my work matters is really important, and for this generation, it’s even more significant. Yes, well, Misha, as we wrap up, the conversation, is there anything you want else you want to to share with the listeners that helps them kind of think, rethink and reframe around this Gen Z.
Dr. Meisha Rouser 39:04
You know, the only thing I would say is, I still, like I said, I am so excited about what this generation is going to bring, what they’re going to be changing. There’s just so they’re just going to be they’re so creative, they’re so imaginative, they’re so collaborative in so many ways, you know, so kind of our job, if we can help foster that, yeah, it’s gonna be amazing.
Kim Bohr 39:29
I agree, and it’s about shaping and not discounting, right? We really have to accept that there’s a tremendous value in this generation, and we need to not delay in bringing them into the fold and learning from them. Well, Misha, thank you so much for the time today, for sharing your insights from your work. I hope our listeners have been able to take some nuggets away for all of those who are listening. We always have our free resources relevant to the conversation today that you can download. Download by visiting courage to advance podcast.com and that will take you to our spark effect podcast page, where you can get the not only the resources from today, but even if you want to check out some of our past episodes. And so again, thank you so much for your insights. I really am also grateful to the empathy edge for hosting our podcast sub series and to our listeners for tuning in to our episode of courage to advance where Transformative Leadership isn’t about having all the answers, it’s about having the courage to find them. Thank you so much. Talk soon
Maria Ross 40:29
for more on how to achieve radical success through empathy, visit the empathy edge.com there. You can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice. Maria, never forget, empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
