What are inclusive cities? How can we shape our cities to be more inclusive for individuals and organizations? Too often, we take things for granted when designing cities and don’t realize how they actually may not work for many of our citizens. Whether it’s public transport, green spaces, or even how we decide what to plow first after a snowstorm – there are perspectives we don’t consider in our very male-focused, majority group-biased urban planning processes.
Today, my guest is Safaa Charafi, an architect, urbanist, and founder of Urban Inclusion. With over 10 years of experience in her field, Safaa shares valuable insights on gender-inclusive urban practices. We talk about why empathy is a pillar in building inclusive cities. Safaa shares how she ended up in this niche field and how our cities fail us – particularly women and marginalized communities. She defines spatial justice and how it is linked to social justice. You’ll also learn about some wonderful concepts you may never heard of, such as feminist cities, the right to the city, and even cities for kids
To access this episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- Diversity in a decision-making group will bring better solutions to community problems. You can’t know what people need if you don’t talk to a wide group of people.
- Diversity is not just a trendy topic. Building a community around diversity requires learning new things and unlearning things we thought we knew.
- Empathy is not about pleasing everybody, but about factoring their perspective into the decision-making.
“Cities need to use empathy and rely more on listening to each other, reflecting the needs and aspirations of their inhabitants. Cities are made for people, but also by people and that’s something we tend to forget.”
— Safaa Charafi
Episode References:
- The Empathy Edge podcast: James Ehrlich: The Neighborhood Of The Future Is Here
- Feminist City: Reclaiming Space in a Man-Made World by Leslie Kern
About Safaa Charafi: Architect Urbanist, Founder of Urban Inclusion
Safaa Charafi is an architect and urbanist and the founder of Urban Inclusion, a consulting firm at the intersection of gender, diversity, and urban development. With a strong academic background and practical qualifications, she brings over 10 years of experience to her field. Safaa’s expertise lies in social research and urban development, with a special focus on diversity, inclusion, and intersectionality. Currently, she serves as a policy officer for UNOPS, she is also a fellow of Allianz Foundation, Belgium’s 40 under 40, entrepreneur, lecturer, and speaker, sharing valuable insights on gender-inclusive urban practices.
Connect with Safaa Charafi
Urban Inclusion: https://www.linkedin.com/in/safaa-charafi/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/safaa-charafi/
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FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW:
Welcome to the empathy edge podcast the show that proves why cash flow creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host Maria Ross. I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society, it’s great for business. What are inclusive cities? And how can we shape our cities to be more inclusive for individuals and organizations? Too often, we take things for granted and designing cities and don’t realize how they actually may not work for many of our citizens, whether it’s public transport, or green spaces, or even as you’ll learn today, how we decide what to plow first after a snowstorm. There are perspectives we don’t consider in our very male focused majority group biased urban planning processes. Today, my guest is Safa Chaffee, an architect and urbanist and founder of urban inclusion, a consulting firm at the intersection of gender diversity and urban development. With a strong academic background and practical qualifications. She brings over 10 years of experience to her field. Sophos expertise lies in social research and urban development, with a special focus on diversity, inclusion, and intersectionality. Currently, she serves as a policy officer for you knops she is also a fellow of Alliance Foundation, Belgium’s 40 under 40, entrepreneur, lecture and speaker sharing valuable insights on gender inclusive urban practices. We talk about why empathy is the pillar in building inclusive cities. And we stress that empathy does not mean we come up with solutions that will please every single person 100% of the time, because that’s just not possible. Safa shares how she ended up in this niche field, how our cities fail us, particularly women and marginalized communities, and she defines spatial justice and how it’s linked to social justice. You’ll also learn about some wonderful concepts you may have never heard of such as feminists cities, shout out to Vienna, the right to the city, and even cities for kids. This was such an interesting conversation, take a listen. Welcome Safa to the empathy edge podcast to talk about inclusive cities and the role of empathy and building them. I am so excited to have you on the show after we connected on LinkedIn.
Safaa Charafi 02:49
Thank you so much for having me, Maria. Well, so
Maria Ross 02:51
first of all, tell us about your story and your work. And how did you get to doing this work around being an architect and an urbanist? And what are you most passionate about?
03:04
Well, so
Safaa Charafi 03:06
my name is southpaw. I’m originally from Morocco, I moved to Europe to do my second master’s in urban studies. And I got to live in Vienna, in Copenhagen, in Madrid, and in Brussels for my matters. And so when I lived in Vienna, actually, I don’t know if you know that or not, but like Vienna is known to be the most feminist city in Europe. I did not know that. Yeah, it’s quite intriguing, because I’ve never heard of a feminist city back then. This was a couple of years ago, and I got to interview ever chirinos lebauer, who are at the head of the cloud, and before, which is actually the translated in German it translated to women’s office kinda. And they’re basically the ones who implemented what we call gender mainstreaming in urban development projects, and policymaking in order to make the three more included from a gender perspective. So what gave birth to this concept of femininity? And yeah, sort of like all click, then that’s when it started. I’ve always been very, very feminine, growing up in quite patriarchal society. Back then, in Morocco, I’ve always been very passionate about social justice, about equality, equity, diversity, all of these topics. And then, during my master’s in urban studies, I got to discover what we call racial justice. And I realized that the struggles for justice are actually much more diverse in their focus, and they can empathize or focus on social environmental and racial justice and somehow like overlap and reinforce one another. And the concept of spatial justice, which is Yeah, linking the social aspects or to the space as in place is never or just the container of human activity. It also shapes human life. And said it can be indeed quite exclusive OR quite a reflection of our society, basically, which are Yeah, much, quite often sexist or racist or yeah, not very equal. So yeah, that’s been my reasons for starting this work. It’s my why. Then, yeah, I started open inclusion, which is a consultancy firm working on the concept of social justice and spatial justice, and gender and diversity into the urban settings.
05:39
I,
Maria Ross 05:40
I love that. And I’m just seeing so many overlaps in, in not as grand missions, but just the ability to take space and encourage collaboration and inclusion that I see in workplaces trying to do some innovative things with their actual physical space, for example, making the physical space accommodate neurodiversity, or the different ways that people work together. You know, there’s spaces for collaboration, there’s spaces for solo work. And so I’m imagining that you’re applying that on a larger scale to a city. Yes.
Safaa Charafi 06:16
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I really like to think of it as the concept. I mean, it will do what you work on, and what you talk about all the time, this concept of empathy, whether we think of marginalized community, the people who usually wouldn’t have a seat at the table, or their voices heard. And when it comes to urban development, and when it comes to making the city, it is historically by men for men, and they’re oftentimes able bodied, hetero, educated, rich men. And these are just the facts. So that, for example, our cities are car centric, knowing that the majority of those who use those cars to go to work are men, also says a lot about who’s included or excluded from the conversation around, how do we make a theory? What is the city for what kind of resources do we put in the city, and sort of like having the quality of life and the well being of residents also in the center? So yeah, that’s something that we kind of, like, start doing with the DNI work at the workplace. And it’s more of Yeah, micro level, I would say. And in the city, it’s much more on a macro level. So yeah, for me, the empathy is a fundamental pillar of what I would like to call an inclusive city or an empathic theory, which is a concept as well. So
Maria Ross 07:51
I love that and I want to get to the role of empathy and building inclusive cities. But first, I want to ask, how do you believe that cities are failing us right now? With whether it’s women, whether it’s marginalized communities? Can you give us some examples? I know, you just gave us sort of the car example. But can you give us some other examples of things we may not even realize are non inclusive in the way that we design our cities?
08:14
Mm hmm.
Safaa Charafi 08:16
I mean, I could give a lot of examples. It’s also Yeah, I do give lectures as well on the topic of like sexism and the theory or how urban planning also failed women, how our cities actually fail women. I mean, like I said, theories have been an article predominantly designed by men, for men, men, and then with a very known book called feminist theory claiming space in a man men world, by the author, Leslie Kern, who’s also an urban Canadian. And she talked on about the role of theory in or how like, things have changed as well for her when she became a mom, for example, and how she navigates the city much more in a much different way because he has a stroller or because of her body changing because of how the gaze as well as the male gait in the city. And this failure to include women in the policy planning for urban development, for example, is a way of making their specific demand or the specific need
09:33
invisible,
Maria Ross 09:35
right, but can you give us some actual examples like like you said, earlier, you were talking about the cars? Can you give us some other you know, some things that will ignite people to see something that maybe has been unseen to them before?
Safaa Charafi 09:50
Well, one particular example is and it’s kind of a running gag right now. It was, yeah, a couple of years ago and also Though there was a theory planning meeting, and someone asked like, oh, it’s like was more of a joke. So they said, what if no one was now sectors? Right? Without? Yeah, the consultants were there. And they were like, Oh, what if actually, maybe it is. And they did a study where they realized that the so basically, they were always starting to plow the snow that was on the, on the row of Spruce for the cart. And then second, they would do the pavements and do the sidewalks, and still had a high rate of people break in there. Yeah, like bowling and having to do it at all, at all bites. But also, yeah, older people, etc. And they decided they were just thinking, Okay, but what if we just change the? Like, what if we just start with the sidewalks first? How would that be? And it turns out that the rate of people falling and of course, they’re going to be higher, or the majority were women of a certain age, that rate fell down. And they were much less, I mean, it also cost the city less, because the current didn’t need it as much, first of all, and the majority of those who are using the roads were men, the majority of those using the pavement or the sides were women of a certain age, but also women with strollers, because they have much different mobility, which in our terms we call mobility of care, because they do what we call trip chain. So they have much different way of going from A to B, they do like a B D, like, yeah, either because of care work, or because of attending to like different activities happen to drop kids at school, picking up groceries, you name it. And that’s also something that we see all over. Like in different societies, it’s not that more patriarchal society would have, obviously, much higher rate, that even in Western society, it is still the case that women do more care, work and unpaid labor, which also translate in how they navigate the city and how they use public transport, how they, yeah, whether they will drive cars or less. And also when it comes to power ownership or housing, home ownership, etc. So they’re, like, we talk now about the gender inequality. But there’s also inequality between women entities, the when it comes to those who work in certain areas, or in certain spaces, or the highly educated women, the single moms, the women of color, the I mean, all of these women will all it’s not a monolith. So they will use public paper, they will use the theory in very different ways. So it’s really important to have like in terms of political pace of conversation and discussion, women’s participation, when it comes to including them in the theory has been so far very partial, and yet fails to really create any sort of equality.
Maria Ross 13:04
Yeah, I mean, you can look at it across so many vectors, because, you know, you can look at some lower socio economic neighborhoods, predominantly black or brown communities, at least here in the US. And, you know, they’re their cities where their food deserts, for example, they don’t have access to fresh produce, or fresh groceries, or access to green space. And so I can see how when you’re when you’re having those planning discussions, but also those, those revitalizing and expansion discussions, that is so important that all different voices, this is again, where diversity makes for a better decision, all those different voices are brought to the table, to be able to unearth these issues that people might miss because they are part of the predominant culture or the predominant group, and they don’t even see it. I’m thinking back to when my husband and I spent a few weeks in London for his work. This was when my son was maybe 10 months old. And my husband is from the UK. He’s from Scotland. So we brought the baby with us so he could go visit his grandparents up in Scotland. But we were in London for a while at an apartment. And I loved it because I could get anywhere in the cabs there because they have the platforms so that you can get your stroller into the cab without taking your child out of the stroller. And I just thought I mean, that’s such a small detail, but it’s in terms of accessibility in terms of my ability to get around with my young baby and in a stroller. And by the way, it was also pouring rain the whole week. We were there. So I was using a lot of cabs. And so I just I so appreciated it because it felt like it was such a thoughtful, intentional decision to do that and, and not that hard, and the impact that it has on citizens and Their ability to move through their day move through their life is just, it’s just so much more improved when you bring those voices to the table to say, Have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? So I’m kind of answering my own question here. But what do you feel is the role of empathy and building inclusive cities? Is it that ability to, you know, gather diverse voices, is that that ability to be able to listen, you know, productively to those diverse voices? Like where do you see the role of empathy? And where have you seen it play out to success in building inclusive cities?
Safaa Charafi 15:36
Well, like I said, yeah, for me, it is a fundamental pillar when it comes to building cities that are inclusive, but also listen to these diverse voices. It’s, I mean, it serves as this guiding principle, at least in my, the reasons why I do this work is because there’s this need for an attendant for compassion, for again, considering the diverse needs and experience of all the residents of the city. And I think that when you embrace empathy, as an urban planner, or as a policymaker, we sort of like recognize and acknowledge the lived experiences of the typically marginalized communities, and those who are affected by Yeah, factors like, like we said, socioeconomic status, age, disability, gender, race, migration, status, you name it. And when we actively listen to this, and this is also like the active empathy, right? It’s not just like passive empathy. But we’re not just listening to them, we have to do something with it. So it also but I also encourage, like the parts betray designs, or to really have an active voice in how the city is being made. So that would help with like, really understand their unique challenges and their perspective, to then tailor or address their specific needs, and really make sure that no one is left behind, which is, again, it sounds very cliche, and I think it’s mostly to be thoughtful, and acknowledge, rather than I don’t think we can include everyone, this is also something that we we can only try. And by trying we can fix, what’s the wrongs that the city had been built on, or whatever has been done before. And I think the me empathy also, like drives co creation efforts within communities. Like I said, it’s about having this active dissipation, creating partnerships between residents and different decision makers, different stakeholders, and really like engaging in meaningful dialogue. I mean, I don’t think diversity. For me, it’s also this aspect of diversity, which had been wanted to talk not in a lot of like posters, and we talk about diversity, like it’s just some trendy topic when it’s actually more open to learning and unlearning it’s hard work. So yeah, I think that cities need to use this empathy and really need to rely more on listening to each other. And, like, yeah, reflecting the needs and aspirations of their inhabitants, like cities, are made for people, but also by people. And that’s something we tend to forget. Because urban planners, like just be the experts.
Maria Ross 18:33
Yeah, to be the master architects. But I think that’s such an important point you brought up there and that we can’t possibly create something that’s going to please everyone. And that’s, that’s the often the argument you hear for, you know, diversity or empathy or whatever is, and that’s not the goal. The goal is that we make the best decisions synthesizing as many inputs as we can. And then when we communicate what are you know, this is true for work, this is probably true when they unveil the city plan, when we have the conversation of this is the decision we came to, number one people know that their voices were heard. And number two, you can provide an opportunity to say we know that many of you, you know, there were quite a few people who wanted this. And here’s why we weren’t able to provide it like that’s actually empathetic is to give people a reason why like that. You heard what they said. But here were the constraints. Here were the obstacles to why we were not able to provide that. So maybe come up with some alternatives. But it’s almost like people that are in decision making. Just don’t even want to have the conversation. They just want to be able to go like here’s the decision. Here’s the plan, live with it. Yeah, the empathy comes in not from doing and pleasing everyone who was involved in the process, the empathy comes in in synthesizing all their information allowing them to be heard And then being able to explain how you came to the ultimate decision that you had to come to. And I feel like that’s the missing piece for people, where they say I just don’t even want to have that difficult conversation. So I’m going to just make the decision and proclaim it from on high. And then I don’t want to hear from anybody. Again, right, that’s like the most on empathetic approach to decision making. So I just want to make sure that we strengthen we underscore that point, because this is one of the myths that I feel like stops so many leaders and decision makers from embracing empathy, like, I’m not even going to practice it, because I know I’m not going to please everybody. And empathy is not about pleasing everybody, it’s about at least seeing their point of view, and enabling them to be heard, and factoring that in to your decision. But if that decision can’t accommodate what they’re asking for, you can then have another conversation that says, here’s why we had to make that decision, or here’s what we can do instead. Do you agree with that?
Safaa Charafi 21:02
Absolutely. I think especially when it comes to now we call multicultural city, or the super diversity, or it’s often this resistance mechanism that we will hear like, oh, but we can’t please everyone. Oh, but we can have everyone’s voices heard. It’s not possible in a theory of few Yeah, 100 1000s. To just have a, it’s not possible. And I think in my opinion, it’s not about that we have to take every single resident into account, it’s really about this, more of an democratic way of building the city. There’s also the concept of the right to the city, which is the philosophical concept, but it’s basically the full accessibility to all the resources and opportunities that a city can offer. And these are actually not, I mean, there is a whole set of activists who work on this on this topic to really ensure that everyone has a right to the city, the reading, or that we all have equal access to the resources to, to public spaces, to housing, to dignity in the city to public transport. I mean, it’s really making sure that different needs are taken into account. And that also recognizing that not everyone will use the theory in the same way that not everyone has the same ability or not everyone has the same need. But it’s also Yeah, like just taking this into account. I think it’s something that most urban planners and policymakers would come from, it’s also coming from this lived experience. So we
22:42
would build cities that worked for us, right? Yes, we absolutely did.
Safaa Charafi 22:47
Yeah. What about the elderly? What about the kids? I mean, there’s also this city for kids, or for children content, that something that I absolutely love, because we tend to forget, and maybe we were all kids at some point, but we tend to forget how it is or how it was or like how distances are why stairs not be built at the scale of a kid when it’s much higher for them to client than then read for adults, like all these small things, because we don’t delve in the shoes of other users of the Yeah, right structure.
Maria Ross 23:24
And it’s often the voices that don’t have the power, they are not heard, because they don’t have the power. And so we need to as leaders and as allies, if we are in those positions of power, we need to seek those voices out. We need to make sure intentionally that they’re being heard. And I’m kind of giggling about your city for kids concept, because this is something we’re facing in the beautiful place where we live, our son is nine and it’s really difficult for him to actually go ride his bike safely anywhere around here. There’s huge hills, there’s this horrific four way stop sign down where you know, the main places are, there’s nowhere for kids to go. Other than like a park or two or maybe Starbucks like, so like, this is one of the things we’re looking at in terms of like, do we need to move to a different city that accommodates more of what, like our child wants in his upbringing and in his childhood, right. So, you know, and that’s a very bottom line impact because we could end up leaving the city because of that. And so they lose our tax dollars, they lose our our contribution. And so, you know, if you’re if you think of a city as almost like a workplace, you know, you’re losing talent. That way you’re you’re you’re not attracting talent to your organization, if you will, because you’re making these decisions that are very, you know, myopic in nature. So this is such a such a great thing. And I think you kind of answered this last question I had for you, we think We’ve been dancing around it. But the idea that spatial justice connects to social justice. But is there anything we’ve missed around that?
Safaa Charafi 25:12
I think I mean, yeah, there’s definitely a huge field work from Edward soja. To David Harvey, working on how the impacts of urban planning decisions plays out in society and how justice can sort of like be translated. I think it’s really important to also, something we don’t talk often about is this distribution of public services or resources have like it had, like the redlining, for example. That’s also something that just blows my mind. I don’t know if I need to explain what it
Maria Ross 25:50
let’s just explain the definition for anyone that doesn’t understand what that means. Well,
Safaa Charafi 25:53
yeah, it’s a it’s a discriminatory practice that basically consists of the systematic denial of services like schooling, insurance loans, mortgages, in certain areas based on their race or ethnicity. And it basically it was literally just planted by neighborhoods with a red line. That’s why it’s called Red Line in in places that would be not really good for investment. And it happened to be of course, neighborhoods with a number of racial and ethnic minorities.
Maria Ross 26:25
Well, actually, you know, it’s not to interrupt you, I’m sorry. The other thing that’s like atrocious about redlining is it also, you know, kept different ethnic groups from buying homes in certain areas. And it was like a year or so ago that I heard about a neighborhood in the San Francisco Bay Area that they discovered, the ability to redline was still in the city’s charter, it had never been removed. So just to discover that this law was still in the charter and still in the books, and nobody caught it. In, you know, the 2020s in the 2010s, was absolutely shocking to me. But that’s the remnants of, you know, racial inequity, the remnants of, of slavery, the remnants of racism in our country, and I’m sure it exists in other places, too.
Safaa Charafi 27:15
Yeah. I mean, yeah, just talking about Now you talk about the US another example, that it’s really mind blowing, you probably heard of is the poor door policy. I don’t know if you’ve heard about this one, which is a separate entrance in the like a residency or like a multi unit housing development, there is a policy that would allow the tenants to ask for having a separate door for people who pay. So you would have Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s, it’s visible, a symbol of an unfair housing practice and of discrimination based on basically you can add, yeah, you can just have a separate entrance to the building for condo owners. And another one in the back are the renters, who live in more nice low income housing units, or like more affordable housing units. And this has been like in mixed income development, urban development, or like real estate, which often will translate into race, this grid discrimination because the affordable unit or the cheaper rental are often disproportionately rented by or occupied by people of color, or people with a disability or trans people, while the more higher end units are going to be primarily occupied by non disabled, educated white people. So yeah, a lot of advocacy behind it, or like affordable housing, civil rights and local political leaders to, like, urge New York City to stop these practices. But it’s very telling of the nation’s history as well.
Maria Ross 28:59
Yeah. And so as we wrap up, I just I would love to leave on a hopeful note, like where do you find hope in the work that you’re doing? Are you seeing, are you seeing change? Are you seeing this be? Slowly but surely, more of the adopted model as people plan cities as they think about adapting cities to more of the needs of their citizens? Like, what keeps you motivated in the work right now?
Safaa Charafi 29:25
I mean, there’s definitely more and more talk about the topic of inclusive city, the feminist theories of something that was more theoretical, when, like in the late 80s and 70s. With the feminist geography or human geography, which is the field of human geography, and which created more like, like safety, justice and career geographies and decolonial geography etc. But now in the past couple of years, we really feel like this research Since the topic is not just a theoretical topic, it’s something that a lot of international organizations are taking over a lot of cities are trying to adopt and taking the lead up to Vienna, there is a lot of like pure learning of knowledge sharing. And really, like a lot of cities are adopting this strategy of gender mainstreaming, for example, which is, like we’ve had an initiative of implementing gender aspects in all phases of the project from the the first phase to the implementation to, you know, the constructions and bond, there’s a lot of civil society organizations that are working on the topic in order to bring about more safety for women, like reclaim the streets movement, that kind of thing. And I think it’s also really like becoming more mainstream, I do realize that my work, because rather niche, especially when it comes to decolonizing, urban spaces, and I have a much more intersectional approach, rather than like a, yeah, playing gender. It’s not only about gender for me. So that’s something I think we need to me to work on. But there’s one more need for it. I think a lot of people are now more aware that it’s something that can change, and we can they’ll change our cities like, especially when we talk about inclusive climate adaptation, or then yeah, so I think they are going in the right direction, and the some resistance, but yeah, I do get a lot of projects and calls from the front, like all different theories and different organizations. So let’s hope there.
Maria Ross 31:41
Yeah, that is great. And I’m gonna, I’m gonna link to a past episode I did a few years ago with a gentleman named James Ehrlich, who was working on concepts for the neighborhood of the future. And it was very much about about leveraging technology, and then taking lessons from the environment and creating a more collaborative neighborhood where residents are sharing resources, and they’re, they’re doing things together as part of the design of the neighborhood. So it’s not exactly your work, but it’s sort of that it’s that tangential, you know, how can we reimagine where we live as a way to better our lives and, and what that living space, whether it’s a city, whether it’s a neighborhood, what it looks like, and what it offers, so that we can have richer and more interconnected, more thriving lives. So I’m going to put a link to that in the show notes for folks, if they’re interested in checking that one out. But Safa, I just want to thank you so much for your work, first of all, and for your time today, and the great education and insights that you gave us into this work. And I for one, if I am speaking personally, you know, at least at least we’re at a place where when you say the phrase inclusive cities, there’s probably more people that kind of have an inkling of what that means then maybe 10 or 20 years ago. So slow progress is slow, right? What do they say? It but it bent, the arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice or something like that. But thank you so much. And we’re gonna put your links in the show notes. I know that currently urban inclusion as of this recording doesn’t have a website yet. So folks can connect with you on LinkedIn. And I will have your LinkedIn link in the show notes so people can connect with you and learn more about you and see your see your work and see your writing. So thank you so much for your time today.
Safaa Charafi 33:32
So much Maria. Thanks for having me.
Maria Ross 33:33
And thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the empathy edge podcast. If you liked what you heard, you know what to do, rate review and share with a colleague or a friend. And until next time, please remember that cashflow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind. For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy, visit the empathy edge.com. There you can listen to past episodes, access shownotes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice Maria. Never forget empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
