What’s love got to do with it, as Tina Turner famously asked? Is there even a role for it in…the workplace? Turns out, yes, but let’s be clear on what we mean by that! If you want to better resolve conflict, create inclusive cultures, and harmonize with upset customers to turn them into raving fans, this episode is for you!
Today, Chloé Valdary and I have a delicious discussion about the three principles of the Theory of Enchantment and how they apply to your workplace. We talk about the first step you can take to express gratitude for both your strengths and weaknesses and how this opens you up to better interactions and more understanding. We discuss what love at work looks like, why it’s not the same as romantic love, and how it creates a healthier, higher performing, and inclusive workplace. Chloé shares what prejudice actually means and how we can combat it to create better customer experiences and inclusive workplace cultures. Finally, we debunk the myth of the know-it-all leader or expert and why constant curiosity opens you up to more learning and better results.
To access the episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- We are not conditioned to share our struggles and weaknesses in the workplace. Breaking that paradigm and bringing our whole selves to work will allow all of us to grow and love.
- Ethically speaking, the word compassion means “with suffering.” You will experience suffering in life, but we want to enter the world in a way that doesn’t harm us as we move through it.
- We cannot live life with no regrets. But we can have gratitude for the experiences we have had and the lessons we’ve learned.
- We change over time. Do the Who Am I practice every three days or so, so you can begin to recognize your patterns and your habits of mind.
“”If we can remind people that they matter in every interaction that we engage in, whether it’s in the business context or not, that makes an impression. That is the kind of transcendent experience that speaks to what I mean by the word ‘enchantment’.”
— Chloé Valdary
Episode References:
- The DOJO community: enchanteddojo.com
- The Tuning Fork community: enchantedtune.com
From Our Partner:
SparkEffect partners with organizations to unlock the full potential of their greatest
asset: their people. Through their tailored assessments and expert coaching at every level, SparkEffect helps organizations manage change, sustain growth, and chart a path to a brighter future.
Go to sparkeffect.com/edge now and download your complimentary Professional and Organizational Alignment Review today.
About Chloé Valdary, Founder, Theory of Enchantment
Chloé Valdary is the founder of the Theory of Enchantment, a New York-based DEI organization that fights against racism and bigotry by teaching love. Theory of Enchantment has trained businesses and orgs across many industries, including tech companies, hospitals, schools, and more. If you’re interested in bringing Theory of Enchantment to your business, contact the org at info@theoryofenchantment.com. If you are an individual seeking daily practice, check out enchanteddojo.com.
Connect with Chloé:
Theory of Enchantment: theoryofenchantment.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/chloe-valdary-92426565
Facebook: facebook.com/theoryofenchantment
Instagram: instagram.com/cvaldary
Connect with Maria:
Get the podcast and book: TheEmpathyEdge.com
Learn more about Maria and her work: Red-Slice.com
Hire Maria to speak at your next event: Red-Slice.com/Speaker-Maria-Ross
Take my LinkedIn Learning Course! Leading with Empathy
LinkedIn: Maria Ross
Instagram: @redslicemaria
X: @redslice
Facebook: Red Slice
Threads: @redslicemaria
FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW:
Maria, welcome to the empathy edge podcast, the show that proves why cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host, Maria Ross, I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy, from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society, it’s great for business. What’s Love Got to do with it? As Tina Turner famously asked, Is there even a role for it in the workplace? Turns out yes, but let’s be clear on what we mean by that, if you want to better resolve conflict, create inclusive cultures and harmonize with upset customers to turn them into raving fans. This episode is for you. Chloe valdary is the founder of the theory of enchantment, a New York based dei organization that fights against racism and bigotry by teaching love. Theory of enchantment has trained businesses and orgs across many industries, including tech, hospitals, schools and more, they believe conventional dei programs don’t work, and that to actually improve employee well being comply with the law and better your bottom line, it’s much more effective to teach people how to practice being in a healthy relationship with themselves first Before they can ever build healthy relationships with others, and that’s where love and compassion come in. Today, we have a delicious conversation about the three principles of the theory of enchantment and how they apply to your workplace. We talk about the first step you can take to express gratitude for both your strengths and weaknesses, and how this opens you up to better interactions and more understanding. We discuss what love at work looks like, why it’s not the same as romantic love, and how it creates a healthier, higher performing and inclusive workplace. Chloe shares what prejudice actually means and how we can combat it to create better customer experiences and inclusive workplace cultures, and we debunk the myth of the Know It All leader or expert, and why constant curiosity opens you up to more learning and better results. This was such a fun conversation to have enjoy. Welcome Chloe valdary to the empathy edge podcast to talk about love at work, ending bigotry and all the important things. Welcome to the show.
Chloé Valdary 02:45
Thank you for having me.
Maria Ross 02:46
So as I do with all my guests, I want to start off your work is so interesting, and I want to find out how you actually got into this work. What was, what was the passion, what was the impetus behind it?
Chloé Valdary 02:56
I wanted to be someone who helped people solve conflict. So I studied the Israeli Palestinian conflict in college, majored in international studies with a concentration in conflict and diplomacy, and I saw a gap in the sense that there was no paradigm based explicitly on love and compassion and cultivating love and compassion as a way to help folks mitigate conflict. So I saw that gap, and build it by creating the theory of enchantment, wonderful. And
Maria Ross 03:26
talk to us a little bit about what is the theory of enchantment? I know that’s the name of your company, but I know there’s a whole philosophy behind that, so talk to us about that.
Chloé Valdary 03:34
Yeah. So the theory of enchantment, the idea behind it, is that in order to be able to love one another, we have to be able to love ourselves, and there’s so many barriers and challenges to loving ourselves. Probably the most primary one is being able to accept our own insecurities. We aren’t really conditioned to do that in the culture, and instead, we project our insecurities onto others. It’s sort of like a default thing that we do as a defensive mechanism. Oh, yeah. In order to sort of override that, we actually have to practice accepting our insecurities and directing love and compassion at ourselves, and then we’ll be able to direct that love outward. So there are three principles the theory of entrapment. The first principle is, treat people like human beings, not political abstractions. Second principle is, criticize to uplift and empower, never to tear down or destroy. And then the third principle is, root everything you do in love and compassion. And then all of the workshops and exercises that we have are meant to teach people how to embody those three principles. I love
Maria Ross 04:39
that, and so much of that resonates for me with the work that I’ve done. A lot of the empathy work starts with self you cannot make space in your own brain and your own heart for another person’s perspective. If you’re too defensive or fearful or even in a mode of self preservation, it’s too difficult. And so really. You know, starting with practicing mindfulness and practicing presence. But also, as I mentioned in the new book of mine, that’s out the empathy dilemma. It’s also about starting with self awareness. So we often think empathy is such an outward practice, but it’s got to start with understanding. What are our strengths? What are we bringing to the interaction, and what are our blind spots where, what are our triggers really understanding that and owning that? And I’ve seen that really powerfully impact CEOs and leaders when they’re able to put ego aside and say, No, I know there’s some things I need to work on. Of course, I’m human. Of course there are things I need to work on. And when they model that vulnerability for their teams, they make it safe for their teams to make mistakes, for their teams to go. Well, what are my vulnerabilities and my blind spots? So can you give me an example with working with one of your clients or doing a workshop where you know, were folks resistant to that were Did you see them sort of open up and understand the role that that self awareness and that self love and compassion plays in their interactions with others. I
Chloé Valdary 06:06
think that we’re all resistant to it on some level. So, you know, I have resistance to it, and I created this experience exactly that’s, that’s, that’s part of what it means to be human, right? That’s the first principle. So yeah, I’ve definitely encountered folks who experience resistance at the beginning of a workshop, and then slowly but surely open up and become more willing to be vulnerable. And that’s all about creating a safe environment, a safe space. And like you said, me as a facilitator, modeling that ability to own my own weaknesses and strengths. We also start all of our workshops out with an exercise called the Who am I game, where people ask themselves the question, Who am I for three minutes, and they’re encouraged to respond honestly with both positive attributes and negative attributes, and after writing down each attribute, actually say thank you and express gratitude, whether it’s a positive or a negative attribute. And what, what that really does is, first of all, it’s very strange for people to do it. It’s very strange for people to express gratitude for the things that they don’t like about themselves, but, but that’s part of what it means to be me, that those are also part of what it means to be you. And so really, the practice of enchantment, ultimately, is being able to give thanks for the full complexity of your being. And if you’re able to do that, you will actually be able to again direct that outward. But that task is a very hard task, and it takes practice, constant practice. It’s not you know something that you sort of like see as a definition, and you memorize it, and boom, you’re good. It really takes practice, because, as you said, we have triggers, and these triggers are often subconscious, right? And so the more we can bring the conscious mind of self awareness into noticing the triggers, not feeling stigma force the triggers Right, right, simply noticing and eventually moving to a place of gratitude, because those those are part of what it means to be us, then we can direct that outward towards other human beings in the workplace, in our you know, family groups and the other social groups that we are part of. Oh
Maria Ross 08:20
my gosh, so much to unpack there. Because number one, like you said at the top of this, we are not conditioned to admit our our struggles or our vulnerabilities or our weaknesses, especially in a workplace, especially when you’re a leader. And this old paradigm of, well, the leader has to have all the answers at all times, and has to be, you know, perfect in every way. And so we’re breaking that paradigm, thankfully, and we’re letting leaders bring their whole self to work so that their people can bring their whole self to work. But also this idea of triggers. You know, it’s funny, because you might be met with resistance of someone going, well, I don’t have any triggers, right, but we all do as part of the human condition and and your your thought about my last point is your thought about gratitude is so interesting, because just yesterday, I was on a walk with myself, and I was thinking about a past really toxic personal relationship that I was in, and I struggle because I learned so much in that relationship that has contributed to my happy marriage now with someone else, and it’s hard to go do I wish that never happened, because it was painful, and I it was triggered by finding some old diaries in the move that we just made to a new house. And I was like, am I thankful for that? Am I glad that I experienced that? I don’t know, but it is who made it is what made me who I am. And so just like any other vulnerability or any other pain point or any other friction, we can maybe wish, oh, maybe I wish I didn’t have to go through that, or I didn’t have to inflict that pain on someone else, or it. Have that pain inflicted on me, but ultimately, did we learn something from it that makes us who we are today? That’s the part we need to be thankful for. And say, I don’t wish it away, because it makes me who I am today. It’s just unfortunate that that had to happen that way. That’s kind of where I left myself off. Was just like, yeah.
Chloé Valdary 10:20
Can you talk about that? It? It’s an interesting it’s an interesting thing to wrestle with, because pain and suffering are a part of life, and it’s very, very difficult for us, myself included, sometimes, to digest that path. But it’s a fact, and one of our programs actually trains people to, it’s actually deeply inspired by Buddhism, and it trains people to, you know, watch sensations, whether they be painful or pleasurable, rise and fall, and notice the story that the mind attaches to them, because the sensations are actually separate from The stories themselves. And if we’re not quiet enough or present enough, we won’t notice that there’s two distinct experiences, or two distinct ways of relating to to reality. And like I said, that takes practice. So I think it’s I think it’s beautiful that you had this experience of looking back, you know, something that shaped you, something that molded who you are today, and something that was painful and but here’s the thing about, about that that’s interesting. You know, the third principle is root everything you do in love and compassion. The word compassion actually means with suffering, like, etymologically speaking, that’s what it means. And so there’s this idea within compassion of being able to allow what is to come into being, so that you can be with suffering again, because suffering is a part of life, and obviously you you want to show up in the world in such a way where you do not inflict harm onto others, and at the same time, you recognize, again, that pain and suffering is a part of life. So how can you enter into the world such that you’re relating to that pain and suffering in a way that doesn’t cause more harm, right? So that, and I think that looking back at your experience with gratitude, with grace, right? Gratitude and grace, those words are connected etymologically, as well, being able to look back at that experience and see how even though it was painful, it was, in a way, necessary to make you who you are. That’s where the grace comes through, right? That’s where the gratitude comes through. So, yeah, I resonate a lot with what you’re saying. Yeah,
Maria Ross 12:41
I think, because it’s hard, we I remember, excuse me, I remember when I was younger, I naively wanted to live my life in a way that I had no regrets. And that’s kind of impossible, right? I was, you know, I was like, I remember being in like, ninth or 10th grade and thinking that way. And, you know, we do have regrets, but we can regret we I guess we can regret the actions, maybe, or the things that happen, but we can be thankful for the lessons. I really feel like people are formed through the through the grit and the friction that they experience in their life, and not that I wish grit and friction for people, but it’s going to be there anyway, like you’re saying, and sometimes that carries over to the people, not even just in our personal lives, but the people we’re interacting with in an office environment, in a work environment, they can’t not be the people they are shaped by the experiences that they’ve had and what they’re going through in their life right now. And then forget all that as they’re doing spreadsheets and having meetings like it’s just finally realizing that that’s impossible for us to do that as human beings. So I want to talk a little bit about this idea of love at work, because I’ve written about this before, about making love a part of your business model, which sounds really super icky and uncomfortable for people like in the tech industry or my tech clients or what have you. But this idea that love is is not always romantic love. Love can be respect, love can be self compassion, it can be all of these things. So talk to me a little bit about how you help, maybe very analytical or left brain leaders understand the role that love can play, and maybe even right brain people, right like all of us, can feel uncomfortable with that. What do you mean by love when it comes to the workplace and to an office environment?
Chloé Valdary 14:31
Yep, in our culture. And so when people hear love, they think romantically, but love. So to your point, a lot of people, I think when they think of love, they think of love in a romantic context. Some people say romance is a religion in our culture, but love in the theory of enchantment philosophy is actually a reference to this concept of agape love, or unconditional love, which was, I think, most popularized by. By Dr King and the civil rights movement. It’s this idea that we are all interconnected. We are all interconnected in a web of interdependence. And so what I do has an impact on you, and what you do has an impact on me. And if we can show up with an awareness of that and with a appreciation and a sense of gratitude for each other and for again, the complexity and the fullness of what it means to be human, both myself as a human and both you as a human, then we will be more likely to create an inclusive culture and an inclusive community of belonging and in the workplace that actually matters. And let me explain how it matters in a practical way. Imagine this is coming from a real example that we that I had, of an experience working with a partner. Imagine that you are someone who is a frontline staff worker, and you have to be in service to someone who is trying to purchase something and the person who’s trying to purchase something is super annoyed, right? Let’s say they’re having a bad day for whatever reason, and something in the store wasn’t actually properly set up. And so they come to you with this attitude, with this very like irate attitude of anger, almost verging on rage, if you’re the frontline worker, you could respond in one of two ways. You could respond reactively, right? So the way that they’re showing up can totally change how you choose to show up. It can totally change your nervous system level reaction, and then you hate them on their vibration, right? And that’s probably what you’re going to do if you haven’t been trained to recognize what’s actually happening in front of you, or if you are trained in something like the theory of environment, you will be able to recognize that the person who is responding in front of you is in some sort of pain, and the pain really has nothing to do with you personally, right? And they’re trying to seek a way to discharge that pain, which is why they’re coming to you with this attitude, with this sort of way of trying to blame you. But blame is just a way that they’re trying to discharge pain. So if you respond to them in a sincere way that’s really concerned with asking them, what is the source of the pain, what do you need right now? How can I be of service so that I can service your needs right now, if you show up in that way, you actually shift the frequency of the interaction. And this actually happened. We had a client who was training in our theory of enchantment work for a long time, and someone came into their store and acted in that irate way, and they responded to them that in a way that actually, you know, harmonized the vibrations, like calm them down, essentially. And then the customer started to speak to them in a far more warm manner. The customer started to ask them about their day. The customer started to inquire as to how they were feeling totally changed the dynamic of the conversation, right? And of course, you can imagine how that can scale up in a business environment where folks are, you know, asked to be of service work. Workers are in a place where they’re asked to be of service. Of course, they’re dealing with humans. Humans can show up in any form or state, how they how the day has impacted them. And so imagine your workforce being able to respond in a way that brings harmony to all interactions in the business. That’s what love at the workplace does, right? So exactly that’s, yeah, I
Maria Ross 18:38
love that. And you know, it’s making me think about an episode that we recorded with Christine Scott. I’ll put this as a link in the show notes, but she does conflict resolution specifically for companies with customer service organizations and helping them resolve conflict exactly to your point, with angry or upset customers. And also what that does to not only help the well being and the retention and the engagement of the employee, but how it helps protect the company’s brand. You know, on the other end, you’ve got, if you’re not helping your people resolve conflict in an effective way, because they will be dealing with a variety of people, and they never know what those people are going to bring like you said, whatever, whatever’s happened in their day, whatever’s happened in their life, whatever, whatever anger or fear or distress they’re in being able to, you know, arm your your teams with the ability to effectively manage that and resolve that conflict is so important. And I remember talking to her even about, you know, some of the objective objections she gets is, well, this workforce, it’s very high turnover, it’s very seasonal, so it’s not worth investing in, in this training for them. And you know, both of us see it. You know, me as a brand strategist, I’m like the damage to your brand if you don’t is much, much greater if you don’t invest. And these people for however long you have them, enable them to be the best versions of themselves and to have the best interactions with your customers, whether they’re with you for two months or 20 years. So I love this. And the other point I want to make about what you’re talking about is there have been studies around the importance of empathy to how customers interact with your brand. And in one study, 97% of people said that empathy in the customer service experience is the most important element of a positive experience. And in some cases, even if the customer service representative couldn’t solve their problem, in the end, it was just how the interaction went. Did they feel seen? Did they feel heard? Did they feel understood? And that still left a positive impression for them on the customer experience. And I’ve you know, I can attest to that personally, so I’m sure we all can. So you know what you’re saying really resonates, because it’s this idea of, you know, leveraging love, leveraging compassion, to diffuse conflict, to resolve conflict, and find a way to connect regardless of the issue. So I love that, and I love that example of how you’re able to turn that around. And I should add that when you’re able to turn around an upset customer or an upset colleague, even they actually become your biggest champions, yeah, because when they have the negative experience that turns into a positive one, they’re going to talk about
Chloé Valdary 21:33
it right? Exactly. So exactly you make an impression, you make an impression, and also you show them that you care. And that’s really sometimes I think that people will, you know, we in the business world can forget the fundamental things when we are, you know, caught up in the Excel sheets, yes, or, you know, we it actually matters to signal to people that they matter and on a fundamental existential level, yeah. And if we can remind people that they matter in every interaction that we that we engage in, whether it’s in the business context or not, that really makes an impression on these I mean, again, I can’t say enough like that is the kind of transcendent experience that really speaks to what I mean when I meet, when I say the word enchantment, right? It’s a transcendent feeling of belonging in the world and then the cosmos at large. And that feeling is priceless. That was truly priceless. Yeah,
Maria Ross 22:39
so I want to shift gears a little bit, and I because I know you’ve done a lot of deib work with companies and bringing the theory of enchantment to bear on that and creating that inclusive environment. So I want to get into what role does prejudice play like? Where does it come from? And if we’re dealing with it, whether colleague to colleague, or, you know, customer service, rep to customer. We bring all those biases and those prejudices to our jobs, to our work, whether we’re a leader or we’re frontline. So where does that come from? And how can folks combat that? How can they be more aware and more cognizant of the fact that they might be treating different people differently
Chloé Valdary 23:25
Well, prejudice means to prejudge, right to judge before an actual experience of getting to know another human being, and oftentimes prejudice directed towards another person is actually a reflection of prejudice directed towards oneself. So the Who am I practice that I mentioned earlier is also relevant to this question, because what ends up happening is, you know, if I can, if I can see that I am, in some contexts, hard working, and I can express gratitude for that, and I can see that in other contexts, I am lazy, and I can express gratitude for that, I will be less likely to project the stereotype of laziness onto another group of people in order to feel good about myself. So so prejudice is working as a kind of coping mechanism, defensive mechanism, again, to deal with one’s own insecurities. If I can engage in practices like the Who am I practice on a regular basis, I will actually be able to cultivate a curious mind, a more grateful mind and a more curious mind and gratitude and curiosity that ultimately combats prejudice, because that’s the opposite of a prejudicial mindset or hard set. Is a curious is a curious mindset. It’s a it’s a grateful mindset. It’s an open present mindset. Again, these are all states of being that have to be cult. Made it through practice
Maria Ross 25:01
absolutely and as we’ve talked about on the show before, Curiosity is the number one trait of empathic people, and it’s because they they come at it with an open mind of trying to understand your perspective and your experiences without coming to the table thinking they know all about you, and they can, you know, assume what your experiences have been, yes,
Chloé Valdary 25:22
and and I think that part is really important, and it comes with not over identifying as a knower, right? And this is where the culture, this is where there’s just, you know, challenges to be overcome in the culture. One of the great, great narratives of our culture is that you are a good person if you know everything right, or you are a you know, elite person, if you know everything, you have to prove that you know everything. I have certainly struggled with that narrative, because, you know, growing up, I was bullied as a child for my for my looks, and so I depended upon my intellect, and I depended upon my my quote, unquote smartness to prove my sense of self worth. And then started to over identify someone who knows things, right? All I have to do is show up here and prove that I know things, and many people will love me. Yeah. So, yeah. So, like, really unpacking that, and, you know, slowly but surely removing those, those that armor is a part of that process too, because that’s when you’re able to show up as a curious person. Is like, you don’t act it doesn’t being able to know things, or knowing things is great, but you don’t. I don’t need to. I don’t actually need to know things in order to prove my sense of self worth, right? So once that becomes once that becomes true, then I can show up in a curious way, and I can make mistakes, and I don’t have to take myself so seriously, because this, this self that I am, is constantly changing and evolving. Anyway, I love
Maria Ross 26:59
that you said that because we, we do live in a culture where we deify experts and thought leaders and gurus. And, you know, I see it all the time in these cult of personalities of of some of the influencers in our world. And I, you know, people just look to them to just have all the answers and solve all their solve all their problems. And I have a real problem with people rising to that level of status and not taking the responsibility to say, look, I don’t have all the answers, like I can tell you what I think. I can give you advice based on the knowledge that I do have about this particular subject area. And so I always bristle when people call me an empathy expert, because I’m still working on it myself, you know? I mean, just ask my husband. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s, I think we all are, I think all of us who are kind of seen as thought leaders or experts, if we can vulnerably admit that we’re trying to keep learning and we’re trying to keep growing. That’s why I do with this podcast, because I want to hear from other people, and I want more points of view, and I want to add to my learning, because there’s no possible way any human can know everything about their particular subject. You can have a lot of domain expertise if you’re a, you know, rocket scientist or a brain surgeon or whatever, and that’s not to be discounted. But being able to put ego aside is a big practice, and empathy and being able to say, I you know, Chloe, I don’t know your lived experience. I don’t know how you might see this challenge at work, and that you might see it differently than I see it. And so there needs to be room for that conversation and that curiosity and that listening back and forth. Because you know, if you’re going to tell me what your point of view is, I should be actively listening to it.
Chloé Valdary 28:39
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Maria Ross 28:41
I love it. I love it. So as we wrap up, I want to just leave folks with, you know, this is such great stuff, but how do we? Can you give us one or two actionable tips, and I hate to make you distill your practice down to that, but someone listening, listening, going, I want to get better at resolving conflict. I want to get better at bringing love into my workplace or into my team. What are one or two things you would tell them to start well, you
Chloé Valdary 29:09
know, I would actually suggest doing the Who am I practice every three days or so, so you can begin to recognize your patterns and your habits of mind.
Maria Ross 29:22
And can we? Can we review that really quick? Can we review that really
Chloé Valdary 29:25
so folks listening? So put put a timer on for three minutes, take out a sheet of paper. Ask yourself the question, Who am I? And for every answer that comes to you, say thank you, and say it out loud. Don’t just like write thank you. The vocalization of gratitude is really important step in this exercise, and be sure to include the things that you like about yourself and the things that you don’t like about yourself. And if you do this, you’ll come to discover you’ll never get to the bottom of who you are, because that’s actually what it means to be a human being. And you’ll also notice that you change over time. Which is also what it means to be a human being. And hopefully you will, you know, you will, you will increase. You will cultivate your capacity to give thanks, the more that you do this. And then the other thing I would say is, you know, we have experiences online that actually give people daily tips that they can, that they can tap into. One of those experiences is called the dojo. Go to Enchanted dojo.com, two Ds, check that out, and also tuning fork again, daily tips, daily practices. Enchanted tune.com and you can get into a daily habit with other people, actually, who are doing the practices on a daily basis, which creates, like, a social community, which just like makes the practices more stickier. So that’s what I would recommend to people to check out if they’re interested in deepening their their practice with us,
Maria Ross 30:50
I love it, and I will be sure to include both of those links in the show notes for folks so they can go back to them. It’s enchanted dojo and enchanted tune.com to access those communities. But what a great gift, Chloe to give us that exercise, you know, and also, you know, folks listening find time to do it. You know, set aside five to 10 minutes. I know we want to start the clock for three minutes, but you might need time to digest what you write, and so make the time to do that so that you can be a stronger leader and a stronger colleague, and just, you know, a stronger human being to show up for other people. So Chloe, we will have all your links in the show notes, as I mentioned. But for folks that might be on the go or exercising, what’s one or two of the best places to find out more about you and your work.
Chloé Valdary 31:35
You can go to theory of enchantment.com you can also follow me on social media at C valderie, that is my handle on both Instagram and Twitter. Love it, love it. Love it, love it.
Maria Ross 31:50
You’re one of the lucky people that has one singular handle. Unfortunately, mine are all over the place. So C valderie, b, a, l, D, E, R Y, on all the places. A R, A R Y, sorry. I just realized that V, a, l, D, A R Y, and I will have again, those links in the show notes for everyone. Thank you, Chloe, so much for your time and your insights today. Your work is beautiful and so necessary, and I really appreciate you taking the time to come on. Thank you, Maria. I appreciate you, and thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the empathy edge. If you like what you heard, you know what to do, rate, review, follow and share with a friend or a colleague, and until next time, please remember that cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Stay well and be kind For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy, visit the empathyedge.com there you can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice Maria, never forget, empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
