Can genius and empathy coexist or are we doomed to put up with tortured, erratic leaders to find breakthroughs? People cite examples of temperamental, even bullying, genius leaders who create toxic workplaces and use their ability to unlock innovation as an excuse for their damaging behavior. My guest today, Taryn Voget, debunks this myth, shows us what genius is all about, and how empathy serves as a catalyst for genius.
Today we discuss what genius is and why it’s not simply about being born with it. Taryn shares the link between genius, spirituality, and empathy – and some unique ways leaders have leveraged empathy to achieve innovative insights. She shares how genius actually works and offers you tips on how to enhance your and your team’s genius in the workplace. You will leave today’s episode inspired to embrace and cultivate your own genius.
To access the episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- Genius is a verb, it is not something you can measure on a test.
- Effective engagement and genius happen when you try to see things from the other person’s point of view and address those goals, fears, needs, expectations, and aspirations.
- Are you excited as a leader? The energy you bring will be the energy that the team feels. If you’re not operating from excitement, how can you expect your team to be?
“Genius is activated through excitement, because that is the driving engine that creates continuous improvement, getting better over time.” — Taryn Voget
Episode References:
- Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear by Elizabeth Gilbert
- The Empathy Edge podcast: Denise Roberson: Mistakes Leaders and Boards Make When Thinking About Purpose
From Our Partner:
SparkEffect partners with organizations to unlock the full potential of their greatest asset: their people. Through their tailored assessments and expert coaching at every level, SparkEffect helps organizations manage change, sustain growth, and chart a path to a brighter future.
Go to sparkeffect.com/edge now and download your complimentary Professional and Organizational Alignment Review today.
About Taryn Voget: Founder, EveryDay Genius
Taryn Voget is a leading expert on genius and the founder of Everyday Genius, a media and education company that unpacks the strategies of genius from the world’s top minds. Through her engaging and relatable videos and podcast, Taryn shares these strategies with actionable insights that help people fast-track their growth and unleash their genius.
Known for her dynamic talks on genius, innovation, passion, purpose, and business, Taryn inspires audiences to think bigger and aim higher. She’s the author of six books on the strategies of genius (plus a memoir!) and works with individuals and organizations to uncover and amplify their unique genius.
Taryn’s clients include industry giants such as SpaceX, Disney, The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Gap Inc., Genentech, and many more.
Connect with Taryn:
Everyday Genius: everydaygenius.tv
Taryn Voget Consulting: tarynvoget.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tarynvoget
Facebook: facebook.com/tarynvoget
Instagram: instagram.com/tarynvoget
YouTube: youtube.com/@tarynvoget
Connect with Maria:
Get the podcast and book: TheEmpathyEdge.com
Learn more about Maria and her work: Red-Slice.com
Hire Maria to speak at your next event: Red-Slice.com/Speaker-Maria-Ross
Take my LinkedIn Learning Course! Leading with Empathy
LinkedIn: Maria Ross
Instagram: @redslicemaria
X: @redslice
Facebook: Red Slice
Threads: @redslicemaria
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Welcome to the empathy edge podcast, the show that proves why cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host, Maria Ross, I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy, from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society, it’s great for business. Can genius and empathy co exist? Or are we doomed to put up with tortured, aggressive, erratic geniuses and leaders to find breakthroughs? People like to cite examples of temperamental even bullying genius leaders who create toxic workplaces and use their ability to unlock innovation as an excuse for their damaging behavior. You all know many of the people I’m talking about. My guest today debunks this myth and shows us what genius is really all about, and how empathy serves as a catalyst for genius. Genius is accessible to everyone in both big and small ways, without sacrificing compassion. Taran voguet is a leading expert on genius and the founder of everyday genius, a media and education company that unpacks the strategies of genius from the world’s top minds through her engaging and relatable videos and podcast, Taryn shares these strategies with actionable insights that help people, teams and leaders fast track their growth and unleash their own genius. Known for her dynamic talks on genius, innovation, passion, purpose and business, Taryn inspires audiences to think bigger and aim higher. She’s the author of six books on the strategies of genius, plus a memoir, and works with individuals and organizations to uncover and amplify their unique genius. Taryn’s clients include industry giants such as SpaceX, Disney, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Gap Inc, Genentech and many more. Today we discuss what genius is and why it’s not simply about being born with it. Taryn shares the link between genius, spirituality, empathy and some unique ways leaders have leveraged empathy to achieve innovative insights. She shares how genius actually works and offers you tips on how to enhance your and your team’s genius in the workplace. You’ll leave today’s episode inspired to embrace and cultivate your own genius. Take a listen. Karen boget, welcome to the empathy edge Podcast. I’m so excited to have you here today to talk about genius and all things genius and its relationship to empathy. So
Taryn Voget 03:00
welcome to the show. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. So tell us quickly your story
Maria Ross 03:05
and how you got to this work of helping people harness the value of genius and tap into their own inner genius to innovate and transform it’s
Taryn Voget 03:14
been an interesting journey over most of my career, but I was at a real career crossroads probably about 15 years ago, where I had done corporate consulting work, was really burned out, and I wanted to do my own thing. And I was taking all these classes on psychology, just for fun in my own interest. And I was on my way on one Saturday to a class when I was driving over the Golden Gate Bridge, and literally this bolt of lightning in my head. And it’s what it felt like was a bolt of lightning, a flash. And I saw a whole idea for what became the everyday genius Institute. I got the name, I got the vision, I got everything. And it was this idea that you could deconstruct how people do what they do, and most of it’s subconscious. And I knew this from the psychology class, but I’d never really heard anyone apply it to genius, not at this level. And I thought, wouldn’t that be so interesting, and it’s kind of like a dummy series, but for genius, but really unpacking how people do what they do, and then sharing their strategies. And so 15 years ago, I launched the everyday genius Institute and came out with a bunch of books and educational product lines teaching people to think like a genius. And then after kind of a four or five year journey, I burned out on it, because it was an intense creative effort that took everything I had, yeah, and I was tired, and I took some time off, kind of went back into consulting, and then just in this last probably few months, sort of had this idea, you know, I should really relaunch everyday genius, but in a different way. And it’s not like it ever went away. It never went away. It’s just that I kind of set it down for exactly what it was, and kind of focused on bringing that to the corporate world, and now I feel more called to bring genius back to mainstream. So yeah,
Maria Ross 04:50
that’s kind of how I got into it well. And you know, it’s so timely, because we’ve been through some seismic changes over the last few years, and so it’s natural that people are reevaluated. Evaluating themselves, reevaluating their passions, their interests, but also their skills and their talents. Of where can I best use my skills and talents? And so I’m sure that conversation comes up a lot where, you know, colloquially, we talk about, like, getting in your zone of genius, you know, that kind of, that kind of talk. But I think a lot of people, especially post pandemic, are going through, like, what’s the best use of my time and my talents, and for some of us? And, you know, I’m in my 50s, and it’s still this constant journey of like, what am I good at? Like, am I just repeating what I’ve always said I’m good at? Or am I still good at those things? Or am I good at other things now? Or maybe I’m good at something, but that it doesn’t light me up. Like, there’s so many questions around that concept of inner genius. It’s not just like, What are your strengths, but it’s so much more. So tell us a little bit about how you define genius.
Taryn Voget 05:52
So there’s a real misconception about what genius is, and it came about about 100 years ago, in around 1908 when the French government commissioned a basically a standardized test to try to figure out what level students were in school so they could help them. And that became the sort of the original IQ test. And for a very brief time, the top level of the test, if you scored above whatever that number was, was called the genius level. But the inventor of the test did not actually like that. He said, you really cannot measure intelligence on a test. You can measure some things like ability to read or reason or do puzzles or whatever, but you can’t really measure intelligence on a test. And he did not like the idea that it was called the genius level. So in 19 I think it was 32 or 34 it actually got changed to just the very exceptional level. And yet, this idea that genius is somehow linked to IQ and you can measure it on a test has persisted for the last 100 years, and it’s really just not something that you can measure on a test. The way I define genius is it’s more of a process. I always say genius is a verb. It’s not like a noun. You know? It’s like someone is a genius. Someone has the genius. Are they pursuing it? And genius sing. And genius sing is like taking that thing that you’re passionate about, and the reason that it matters is because when you love something, you want to get better at it. And genius is about focus over time. So at the very beginning of your journey to learn something, you may not be very good, but you love it and you’re passionate about it, so you get this continuous improvement loop. You get better, and then to kind of tie into what your question was, you start exploring it from different angles. So what might have interested you the first 10 years of your career is different than the next 10 years. The themes might be similar, but you’re exploring your own genius from another angle to get better at it. That’s another way to do the continuous improvement loop. And so the whole process is genius, and when you’ve done it long enough and you’ve gotten good enough and you’ve developed great strategy. It looks to the outside world often like, Oh, that’s really genius. But it focus over time and being able to consistently tap into, what I like to say is the quantum field, because often where genius comes from, we do it very naturally. We think it’s this big, mysterious thing. It’s not. But people that are really exceptional at what they do, have very high quality goals, genius level goals, and they can kind of tap into the quantum field to create these results that look exceptional, but it’s only because they’ve been doing it for so long, and they figured out a way to do it that looks like genius,
Maria Ross 08:08
right? Well, is it that it looks from the outside? Does it look effortless like, Does it seem like to someone else? Like, wow, you’re just naturally good at that, but they don’t see all the reps and all the continuous performance loops that you’re talking about. Like, how does that?
Taryn Voget 08:23
Yeah, my all time favorite quote is from Michelangelo. You know, he did all this incredible art, and I think he was, you know, painting the ceiling of whatever. And he said, if people knew how much work this was, they wouldn’t call it genius. Oh, wow. And it’s really my favorite quote, because it sums it up. And often you see somebody after they’ve mastered it. You didn’t see or my dad always says, I was an overnight success after 35 years. You know exactly. You don’t see all the reps. You don’t see the genius sing. And there’s so many people that weren’t recognized in their lifetime, or were recognized much later in their life, but they were genius sing the whole time. Like at what point you say, Oh, they’re a genius when they’re first learning, when they’re mid and, you know, process getting better, or the very end, when it kind of like, looks brilliant, you know, like, yeah, point, are you a genius? You’re genius the whole time you’re just going through the process of geniusing,
Maria Ross 09:12
right? Right? Is that sort of linked to the whole 10,000 hours model of like, having to put in the time and doing the continuous improvement and continuing to adopt a growth mindset. And I’m saying all these words because I’m thinking of my own son, who’s like, 10, and this is something I’m trying to help him learn for himself. Is exactly this, this whole like, you gotta stick with it if you do love it, and if you are passionate about it, because you’re not going to be good at it on day one. So is it kind of linked or not?
Taryn Voget 09:42
It is. I mean, I don’t really know anybody that’s reached a level of mastery or, quote, unquote genius that just hasn’t put in a lot of effort to be good at it. I really can’t think of a single example. Every now and again, you get a prodigy that comes through.
Maria Ross 09:56
I was gonna say, what about those, like, four year olds that, oh, yeah, and actually, let’s
Taryn Voget 09:59
put a pro. And it because I have a very interesting theory about that. Okay, the question is, which lifetime did they put in the 10,000
10:04
hours? Oh, okay, okay,
Taryn Voget 10:08
you know, that’s where you really get into this quantum, multi dimensional kind of question around genius. But, uh huh, it really is about focus over time and getting better. Now, what I will say is, you can shortcut your learning curve, but it is like, sometimes, if things are very physical, like, it requires a certain dexterity, the same with mental, right? Like, you kind of got to, like, hone the muscle a bit, and you can’t go from, like, flabby to ripped biceps overnight, right? There is a process that happens now. You can shortcut that process with better strategy, right? But you can’t eliminate it entirely 100%
Maria Ross 10:39
it’s reminding me of just, you know, when I talk about going to the empathy gym and building your empathy muscle, that it doesn’t for some people, even though it’s innate to us as humans, if it’s gone dormant or it’s atrophied, it’s going to take some time, it’s going to take some reps at the gym to build that back up again. But to your point, it’s about focus and intention, and you can make that decision about getting good at that. So talk to me, since we’re kind of on this trail, what is that link that you see between genius and spirituality and empathy?
Taryn Voget 11:10
It’s a great question. The more, just to sort of back up just a second, I kind of went on a few different tracks in my life, again, kind of exploring my interest from multiple angles. You know, I had the corporate angle and the coaching angle, and then I went to shaman school and got this real spiritual angle. And at some point they all came together, and I realized, oh, that’s what genius is. And here’s what I have come to discover. And I’ve never really heard anyone talk about it quite like this, but it’s kind of like each soul is like a thumbprint, right? There’s like a unique soul signature that everybody has, because we can’t all be good at the same things. If you take the sum total of creation, creation is interesting because it’s all so different, what you like and what I like and what someone else likes. And that spark of passion is really our soul talking to us and saying, go do this. Like this is really your thumbprint. Go pursue it, because you’re going to find all the joy, all the magic, all the abundance, all the greatness in that. And so it’s like the spiritual. When I say spirituality, people think it’s this woo, woo thing. To me, spirituality is like, what is the essence of your spirit, and how do you activate that and step into that? And the essence of your spirit is unique to you, but how you know what it is like, Who you are is what you’re interested in, what you’re passionate about. Now, I think a big challenge in our culture is that we don’t help our young ones identify their passion and nurture them. The whole school system is designed not for that. No, not at all. You know, I don’t even know that the corporate world is designed for that. But really it is. Yeah, it’s really like your soul saying when you do what excites you, whether it’s read a book in this moment, go for a walk, you know, create a podcast, design a whatever, you know, run a race like whatever your interest is, like, if that’s your excitement and you follow it, it’s this really interesting unlock that happens. It unlocks this energy of excitement within you, which is very high vibration energy, and that high vibration energy starts being a magnetic energy, and it kind of starts pulling other high vibration things. To you, people talk about this kind of as the law of attraction, which it is in its sort of most core sense, right? That you know, like attracts like. And there’s a million studies around this. But when you’re excited, then you start attracting more exciting things, and the more exciting things have more opportunity. But the other thing it does is it raises your vibration enough to tap into higher levels of consciousness where more information is available to you. It’s like when you’re really sad and depressed. I don’t know that anyone has ever had a good idea sad and depressed, right? Right? When you’re happy, joyful, out for a walk, not thinking of anything, that’s when the good ideas drop in. And why is that? It’s because you’re happier in a higher vibration and you’re tapping into higher dimensional information that kind of just pops in. So it kind of is this interesting mechanism where that’s like, sort of the mechanics of how it happens, because then you get these great ideas, right, and then you’re all excited about it, so then you act on them and doing that enough, you’re like, Well, that’s good. And then, of course, there’s sort of these strategies of genius that happened. You know, your goals start getting better, your skills get better, your strategy gets better. The things coming to you get more interesting. Opportunities become more interesting. Now, what often happens is, in that journey, you burn out a little bit. You’re like, I’ve explored it enough from this angle. Now, let me try and explore from another angle, which is why people do big career shifts. You know, they change jobs, they change locations, whatever, right? But to answer your question, you know, our spirit is wanting to express itself, and we know what that is, because it’s the thing we’re excited about. Now. We have a whole lot of cultural junk and garbage and layers around that. It’s like, oh, but this is the strategy to make money. This is what
Maria Ross 14:33
right? This is other people’s definition of success, yeah. And what worked
Taryn Voget 14:37
for them, right? Doesn’t always work for you. You You know, I can’t tell you how many horses I bought being like, oh, that’s how to make a million dollars a month. And, you know? And like, yeah, totally, it didn’t work for me. I know my strategy is not their strategy. My thumbprint is not theirs, right? What excites me is not what excites them, and it’s that excitement that is the unique thing. Now, you can learn from other people, but trying to replicate exactly is very hard.
Maria Ross 14:58
Is that where the link to empathy. Comes in and that you open yourself up to seeing things from other points of view and other perspectives, and that includes the perspectives and points of view of other people, not just your perspective and point of view on the passion or on the work, right? Yeah. So
Taryn Voget 15:13
I’ve had a lot of people come through what I call my genius lab, where I really deconstruct how they do what they do, and it’s always very subconscious, and I’ve discovered, really five major patterns. I’ve actually, I’m going to add a sixth one, because the sixth one’s been a recent discovery. But the real one of the key five patterns, or strategies of genius, is this thing around seeing things from multiple points of view. I have never, and I mean, never had someone come through my genius lab that didn’t do this in some way. And so let’s talk about what are the points of view. There’s the first person point of view. Like, how do you see it through your lens your eyes? What you’re looking at? That’s the first person point of view. The second person point of view is like, you stand in someone’s shoes and you see it from them. It’s almost like you kind of like, imagine you step into their body and you look at it through their eyes. That’s the second person point of view. The third person point of view is when you sort of take a step back and you see yourself and another or a group in a third person observer role. Everybody who is good at what they do, without exception, does this. Now. They do it very subconsciously. I’ll just give you an example that’ll be like a duh example. I deconstructed this strategy of the copywriter, one of the top copywriters, he writes for all the big tech companies, you know, Apple and all those companies, brilliant copywriter, and when we unpacked how he did what he did, and he didn’t even know he did this, but kind of in his process, he imagined that he was at coffee with an ideal client, like someone who was going to buy some gadget that he was writing copy for, right? And he imagined that he was at coffee and he was talking to them, but then he would step into them and see himself across the table at coffee, and imagine, like, what are they thinking? What are they feeling? What do they want in this product? What excites them, what would be interesting, right? And then he kind of zoomed out, and he’s like, Okay, well, that’s how I see it. That’s how they see it. Now, how would like the market see it? You know, if I wrote like, a copy, like, how would anybody reading it see it? And that was kind of that third person. So the empathy is that ability to step into truly like you become someone else, and you see it through their eyes. And I could give you 100 examples of this. I mean, that’s just a basic one. Yeah, yeah. The one that blew my mind just happened, actually, a handful of weeks ago. I deconstructed how the shaman basically creates miracles, and he does this probably better than anyone I’ve interviewed. And so he creates miracles for clients, healing, miracles, insights, business, like, just miracles, right? Like, well, how do you do that? So I don’t know how I do it. So, you know, you take the split second that happens in someone’s mind, and you unpack that split seconds, you know, into, like, what’s 50 steps. Here was the, nugget that came out of that interview that was just, and I thought of you, and I thought, Oh, Maria is going to love this. So he kind of gets really quiet, and he kind of just lets himself go totally blank, and he’s like, I know that I can’t create the miracle me, John The shaman, I can’t create the miracle, but the miracle can be created. So he sort of like, takes himself out of it, and then he gets really quiet, and he literally imagines that, like, everything goes black, and he connects to all that is. And you can do this too. Like, if you just kind of allow yourself, you’re like, Oh, if I just connect to all that is in this dark, quiet space, like I can do that. And then from there, here’s what he does. So it’s not him anymore. He’s all that is. He’s like, connected to everything. It’s not it’s no longer him. He sees his client. They’re the one he’s helping. And he literally steps into their body so fully to feel what they’re feeling, understand what they’re thinking, but more importantly, ask, what do they need, and how can they hear it? And he does this so completely and so fully. He’s like, Oh, that’s what they need to hear. And then he pops out, and he’s like, Okay, well, now I know what I need to do. I need to say this or create that, or, you know, tell them the other thing, or show up in this way. But here’s what he does, which is the really brilliant part is he sees the results having already happened. Like, okay, so they need a miracle. He sees the miracle being done, and he’s still kind of in this quantum field. He sees the miracle being done and how happy his client is, like, genuinely happy. He feels how it feels to be happy as them, then he steps out and becomes himself and sees how and feels how happy he is seeing them happy. Does
Maria Ross 19:15
that make sense? Yeah, like taking multiple perspectives. Yeah. Whole process happened for him in a split second.
Taryn Voget 19:21
Nano, it was that fast. Wow, yeah, wow. Both of us were like, Whoa. That was really strategic. But here’s the power of that, right? And they always say this, that creation happens not through physical action, but through a feeling place. And so he gets in these feeling places, which is deeply empathetic, right? Because he gets so happy seeing someone happy, and feeling how happy they are, and he feels happy in that same way. And that is really the heart of empathy and using it in the most positive way to create a miracle for somebody. Yeah. And so then he kind of like, snaps back into reality, and then, you know, kind of the rest of the session happens, and he walks them through kind of a process. But it was then that the miracle. And it was the most beautiful example, I think, of empathy I’ve seen someone do, because it was really miraculous. Well,
Maria Ross 20:07
I mean, so much to unpack there, but first I just want to point out the symmetry of this, and just the reiteration of what has always been a part of my work, and even marketing and branding, is that effective marketing, branding, connection, engagement, happens when you try to see things from the other person’s point of view and address those goals, those fears, those needs, those expectations, those aspirations. And that’s when you get you know, whether it’s you know, sales copy, or whether it’s a nonprofit that’s, you know, asking for donations or asking for support, if they’re able to convey that message in a way that the person reading it, whether it’s the prospective customer or donor or client, says, Yes, I see myself in that message. I see how this impacts me, and therefore I am going to be moved to act. That’s what we’re talking about, and that’s where, you know, just another episode, you know, where that can be used to manipulate people, but when it’s used for good, I’m a huge proponent of using marketing for good and to encourage people and ignite people, and, yes, provoke people in some way, shape or form. But that requires not. Here’s what I want to tell them it requires, what do they need to hear? What is their life like? And even the most you know from the first book on empathy that I did, the empathy edge I profiled, you know, Steve Jobs, who, as a boss, was not known to be the most empathetic boss in the world, but we can all agree that he was a genius and was very empathetic at that level for his customers and his users, and what they were going through, what their goals were, what their aspirations were, and that’s why Apple is. Apple is because it wasn’t about the product, it was about the person and what they were trying to accomplish and what the product could help them be or do. And so I love this. And so this kind of segues us into two areas that I know we wanted to talk about. One was that myth of to be a genius, do you have to be selfish and egocentric and erratic and cruel in some cases, because I think there’s a portion of the narrative that says that that behavior is acceptable in a leader because they’re a genius. What is your perspective on genius from that point of view? I know it has to do with maybe what level of empathy they are exhibiting. But do you really believe that it has to be an either or
Taryn Voget 22:33
well, so if you think about what genius is, right? It’s focus over time. It’s continuous improvement. Focus over time. There has been, and this has been a widely studied phenomenon, or link between mental health, like mental health problems, and genius. And here’s why is that? It’s genius. Workaholism is a form of addiction, just like drugs or alcohol or gambling or whatever, workaholism is a form of addiction. And why do we have addiction? It’s usually a trauma response to something. And so you know, often, when you see these really crazy geniuses, that level of focus and that maniacal focus on something is often a trauma response and an addiction pattern. And yet, it’s what also creates this incredible genius. That level of focus, there was this really interesting rock climber, and his name is escaping me, although he had a really cool documentary, I think it was called free solo. And many would argue he’s the best rock climber of all time. I mean, he freestyled El Capitan, no ropes, nothing. And I think, wow, once. I mean, nuts. This guy is crazy, good rock climber, wow. And yet he’s, you know, someone asked him, like, Are you depressed? And he’s like, you know, I never really thought about it. And he’s like, I think I am, you know. And so it’s an addiction, because he’s getting a dopamine hit from doing it, and a level of focus that kind of gets him out of, you know, his reality, and that’s what makes him genius. So, you know, when we see people that maybe aren’t exhibiting what we might call sort of well rounded behavior,
Maria Ross 23:57
that’s a very nice way of putting it, yeah, what I would say is
Taryn Voget 24:00
often it is a trauma response, and it’s a kind of an addiction, not always. And I like the idea of the everyday genius, because when you were talking about your marketing, I thought, you know, I already, I haven’t had you in my genius lab, but I already know that you’re genius at this because you’re operating from these really high quality goals. And I would call you an everyday genius. And there’s so much of that around, yeah, there is, there is, there
Maria Ross 24:18
is. And yet, the ones that kind
Taryn Voget 24:20
of make the news are these ones that are these ones that are these incredible, exceptional, you know, are operating so singularly minded. Now, the the upside of that is, if you look throughout history, it’s usually been one person that has changed the direction. Now, like if you look at Galileo or somebody, they had this idea, people laughed at them, then had violent opposition, and then after enough time, came around to their point of view. Now, was Galileo, you know, crazy? I don’t think so. I think sometimes, you know, he just, sometimes he’ll just come with these really cool perspectives that do change reality. But then every time, every now and again, you have kind of a crazy genius that also changes society, but you might not like how they do it. I. Right? The end result can be quite good,
Maria Ross 25:03
right? But what I hear you saying is, you don’t have to subscribe to the myth that you have to be tortured to be a genius. That’s what I’m hearing you saying, and that’s where, you know, I remember, a few years ago, I read Elizabeth Gilbert’s book, and I can’t remember the name of it, something magic. I’ll find it, and I’ll put I know the show I’m talking about, yeah, you know the one, you know the one I’m talking about. And she talked about that like we have to let go of that myth that you have to be tortured to be creative, to be innovative, because we can find ways to tap into what you’re saying, that that spiritual vibration and that other level of thinking, to tap into our larger thoughts and our larger goals. And so I love that she was debunking that that’s not the only way. You know, if you want to be an artist, you don’t have to, you know, form a drug habit and live, you know, in poverty and, you know, have horrible love affairs or whatever. You don’t have to. But what I also hear you saying is sometimes that behavior has been exhibited by people who eventually are known as geniuses because of them acting on this focus. Is that kind of what Andrew’s saying?
Taryn Voget 26:08
Yeah, exactly. There’s no one size fits all. Like, if you take a Steve Jobs, was he tortured? I don’t know. Maybe, you know, sometimes I think souls come in with a really intense passion, like, I’m going to do this thing at all costs. You know, they come in with this drive and as a standard, and a genius has incredibly high standards, which is why they’re hard to work with. Yeah, because they there’s no compromising. But do we? Do we have to care about, but
Maria Ross 26:34
do we have to put up with the bad behavior part of it, when you have a leader that is a genius, like some of the people you know, making headlines in our world today, is that something we can’t hold them to task for because of their genius, or can we expect better from them, because, if they’re burning people out, you know, sort of like leaving a trail of fire behind them in their effort to transform and innovate? Do we let them? I mean, that’s kind of like a more of an opinion question.
Taryn Voget 27:03
What I would say is, every single person has free will. If you’re working for someone that you’re not jazzed about, and the bad outweighs the good, no one’s keeping you there.
Maria Ross 27:12
Well, unless they are, unless you are not in a privileged position where you can just leave a job and yeah, so what
Taryn Voget 27:18
I would say is, even in a situation where you need the job, I believe that everybody has enough power within them to find a way out if they wanted it. That’s just my personal belief. Now, is it always easy? Is it always convenient? No, but if you know, if you’re being abused and you don’t like it, you know? Yeah, I think everyone has enough power inside to find a different path.
Maria Ross 27:41
I guess my question is for you, as a studyer of genius and a researcher and an expert in genius, do you think it’s something we just have to accept about some geniuses, and that that’s okay for the greater transformation, for the greater innovation? And there’s no right answer. I’m just a consecutive
Taryn Voget 27:58
question because yeah, you know, I don’t know that you can change it for somebody. I mean, the way you change I just heard this really interesting story, you know, I’m on Tiktok, and you get such great things on Tiktok. And this boss bought himself a Lamborghini and didn’t give out Christmas bonuses, and the employees were so upset, every last one of them quit, and he was left with orders unfulfillable because there was no staff, and that is a great example. And I’m sure none of those people were in a position to leave that job. I mean, I don’t think it was particularly high paid work, right? And yet, their principles and their morals were, I’m not working for this jerk, right? So, you know, at what point then, so then the guy’s scrambling now he has no business and, you know, no way to pay for his Lamborghini. So you know, at what point do you just decide what works for you or what doesn’t work for you, and then let the chips fall where they may for the person that
Maria Ross 28:44
right is in charge, right, right, right, yeah. I mean, I think that like that on the micro level of that particular company. But I’m wondering, you know, we’ve all seen bio pics and read biographies of genius people throughout history, you know, some of the damage they left behind. But yet, for some of them, whether they were developing cures for diseases or making a scientific discovery, the greater good was that that maniacal focus that might have destroyed individual lives does that. I mean, I’m getting really like, you know, abstract.
Taryn Voget 29:21
I worked somewhere where I really had to come up against some of this asking within myself, yeah, and the person was a billionaire, very influential, and what I realized is, nobody’s all good or all bad. Even in the worst, there is some goodness and good intent, right? And often, when people are, you know, there’s wounds everyone. We all carry wounds, but when you carry wounds, and you have a lot of influence, sometimes it can be really damaging, right? Because what happens when you’re wounded is you tend to inflict those same wounds on others, very unconsciously. And so, you know, in the name of trying to do good this person was doing, I would say just as much evil, if not more. You. Under the intent of thinking he was doing good, right? So they’re complicated questions.
Maria Ross 30:04
They are, they are, yeah. I mean, there’s no, we’re not going to come to an answer. I was just curious about Yeah. That’s the thing I always wrestle with, of like, you look back and you’re like, Okay, maybe those individual lives in that person’s lifetime were negatively impacted, but for the advancement over the centuries that their discovery or their innovation created for the greater good that led to medical breakthroughs or scientific discoveries, like I’m saying, or even like the most amazing art that we can appreciate, is it worth it? I find myself often asking that, like, no, if I was the person that was actually impacted by their bad behavior, I would say no. But when, with the hindsight of time and the impact of that person’s work and their genius on human society over time, it’s like, Oh, was that just a price to pay? You know? So these are just like, I’m totally getting
Taryn Voget 30:57
into like, this whole Yeah. I mean, back to Galileo, who never thought that the sun revolved around the earth. And he said, No, actually, the earth resolves around the sun. People were very, very upset by that. Very upset. Yeah. I mean, it rocked their world. You would argue that people and his
Maria Ross 31:11
family is probably like, can you not bring shame to our name by, like, pissing everybody off? Yeah, yes.
Taryn Voget 31:16
You know it depends on what slice and time when you hit up against people’s beliefs. Yeah. It is really, really an emotional thing for people. And a lot of times when souls come onto the planet to create big change, they’re hitting up against a lot of beliefs on how things are done or how things should be done. You know, with enough time, you’re like, oh, okay, maybe they were right, yeah,
Maria Ross 31:35
exactly, exactly, yeah. The earth is not flat. So let’s bring this down to, like, our time. And, you know, corporate leaders, organizational leaders, not even corporate, whether they’re nonprofit, what are some tips you have? I hate to like sort of distill it down to that, but what are some tips you have where they could start to unlock their genius at an everyday level? So
Taryn Voget 31:56
two thoughts there. Number one is, genius is activated through excitement, because that is the driving engine that creates continuous improvement, getting better over time. When you’re not excited about something, you don’t care and you get sloppy, and that’s why everyone’s complaining about workers right now, is because they’re having them do jobs they’re not excited about, right, right? I mean, so the underlying principle of genius is excitement. So if you just start there at number one. Are you excited as a leader? Because the energy you bring to it is going to be the energy that the team feels. And if you’re not excited, how are you expecting your team to be excited? Right? You know, there’s parts of any job that don’t light us up, but the overall thing does, the mission, does? You know what we’re creating? You know, the new product, the whatever. This is why purpose
Maria Ross 32:40
driven companies do better, because they can get more innovation and engagement out of their people, because they’re like, Oh, I know why I’m here and I’m excited about
Taryn Voget 32:47
it. Yeah. So number one is excitement for yourself and what you’re doing and creating a big enough and exciting enough goal that Jez is you as the leader. Because if it’s not there, and it’s like, whatever level you’re at in an organization, you might not be able to set the big CEO level goal, but for your department, is there a goal you’re excited about? Because without excitement, you’re just not going to get great results, or even your peers. I talk about this all the time, about you have a sphere of influence, whether you have people reporting to you or not. And so what vibe are you giving out? Are you someone that’s able to attract and build excitement and build energy and momentum around something. You might not have a title, but you’re a catalyst than your organization. So Well, Said, agreed. So that’d be number one. Number two is, are you bringing people in that are excited? And this is coaching I give a lot of people is, you know, sometimes there’s this tendency to bring people in that match their resume perfectly, and they talk well, and they’ve got this great experience, but at their core, they’re just not that excited. Maybe they’re a little burned out. Maybe that’s like, kind of the job they feel like they should be doing, not the job that lights their fire anymore. Back to, you know, sometimes we need to change up what
Maria Ross 33:52
we do. Well, like you said, genius stems from being excited about excited. Yeah,
Taryn Voget 33:56
yeah. And so, you know, that’s a direct funnel in, you know, you know, you get people more excited in. You’ve got an exciting vision. So now you’ve kind of got the top and the bottom, you know, I say, you know, or the entry point in. Now, what do you do with the middle, right? And that’s where there’s got to be an exciting enough goal that people are jazzed about, and the companies that do really well, you people are excited about it. I was a consultant at Genentech for a long time. This is years and years ago, and whether you were the accounts payable clerk or the scientist in the lab, that everybody knew that their work connected people to healthier results and happier, you know, like happier, healthier lives and saving lives. And it was so instilled in people that their work mattered. Yeah, and the company did so well for so long now, it got bought out by a much bigger company. I don’t think it’s great, but, but for a long time, that is, I mean, it was just stratospheric how successful they were. Because of that, they linked everybody to something that mattered. Back to your point about purpose driven. So it’s like, how do you create excitement at whatever level you’re at, and at a company level, at a team level, at an individual level, at a recruiting level. Because that is where you’re gonna harness a genius. But there’s a second part to it. It’s not just excitement, it’s empowerment. Because you can be excited and hit up against walls trying to get something done, and it will nothing will curb your excitement faster than hitting up against walls and not being able to get through red tape and layers and all of that. So it’s creating a culture of empowerment. Is the second piece to that. And I think a lot of companies try to do it, but they don’t understand why it’s so important sometimes, like you might, you know, you’ve got these approval levels, like they’re trying to save money and make sure everything’s safe, but in that absolutely stifled all excitement, creativity, innovation, whatever.
Maria Ross 35:38
Yeah, you’ve got to weigh that with you know, well, how competitive Do you want to be in the market, like maybe your accounts payable and your procurement and your you know, all of that is buttoned up, and nobody can spend a dime unless you approve it. But what are you losing in the marketplace in terms of talent or in terms of innovation? And that’s why you know so many research studies show that if you have an empathetic leader, you it’s like three times four times as much of being able to be innovative at work, because you’ve got someone who kind of understands what you need and what you want to contribute and is supporting you in that, not that you know, not that everybody just gets to go spend, like, hundreds of 1000s of dollars. But there’s ways to put guardrails around that where it’s like, let’s not make this the norm that people can’t. Let’s figure out how we can make more people say yes to things and bring their ideas, because they actually have really good ideas. But you’re never going to know that unless you give them that environment and that culture where you’re listening to their ideas, where you’re getting curious about their ideas. And this is kind of, again, that link to empathy and empathetic leadership. So I love it. And so we’re going to have links to the empathy lab, to all your stuff, to the books, to you, to everything. I just I can’t even tell you how excited I was to have this conversation with you, because I think this is a hot topic right now, and I think more people need to embrace their own inner genius and not think it’s only somebody else. So before we wrap up, I want to give you one last chance to share a gem or an insight with us of how you want people to move forward and embrace their genius and embrace living a more fulfilling life and having a more fulfilling career.
Taryn Voget 37:24
I think that the best thing anyone can do in any moment is really do an inquiry of what is going to light my fire right now. And it doesn’t need to be a big, world changing cure, cancer kind of a thing. It can be small. Not everybody is ready for that in their life, you know. So we go through phases, but we’re all ready to do little things that light us up more. And when we do the little things that light us up, we learn to play pickleball, you know? We go out with friends more often. Yeah, you know, we read an interesting book we’ve always wanted to we, yeah, gardening, whatever. When we do the little things, it starts putting us in the energy of the bigger things. It’s like, when you say yes to the small things that excite you, life is like, Oh, she’s listening. Let me bring a bigger one and a bigger one. And that really is the joyfulness of life. And our soul is always whispering to us, and it’s whispering to us through the energy of like, just follow this exciting thing. That’s your purpose. That’s what you’re here to do. That’s what’s going to bring you all the good things. So really, my invitation to anybody is just start small if you don’t have the big thing yet, because it will go
Maria Ross 38:24
well. Oh, what great advice for the new year. So thank you so much, Taryn, for all your insights and for this great conversation. I, as always, with so many of my guests, I could talk to you for another hour about this. Like I said, we’re going to have all your links in the show notes. But for anyone that’s listening to us on the go, where’s one of the best place they could find out more about your
Taryn Voget 38:41
work. It’s been a delight being on the show. Thank you so much. Maureen, I agree we could talk another hour, but the best place to find me is everyday. Genius.tv.
Maria Ross 38:49
Great. All right, we will put that in the show notes as well. Thank you, Taryn, thank you, and thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the empathy edge podcast. If you like what you heard, you know what to do, rate, review and share with a friend or a colleague, and until next time, please remember that cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy. Visit the empathy edge.com there you can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice. Maria, never forget, empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
