“You’re so needy” – We say that like it’s an insult sometimes, but yes, yes you are needy. Because you’re human! And until we can learn to identify our needs, find the words to articulate them, and adjust our schedules and interactions on any given day to accommodate them, we are doomed to burn out and be more unproductive than we ever thought possible.
My guest today is Mara Glatzel, author of Needy: How to Advocate For Your Needs and Claim Your Sovereignty.
Today we discuss how high-achievers can identify and honor our own needs and how it helps us show up in the workplace as more empathetic leaders and better able to respond and perform iin healthy, creative ways. And how you can identify, center, and advocate for your needs in a world or workplace that is not aligned with your values Mara shares one way to be kind and generous to ourselves every day and talks about moving your relationship with yourself from a place of self-abandonment to self-partnership. Finally, we tackle how to balance your needs while avoiding selfishness – which is kind of a trick question, as you’ll learn!
To access this episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- Many people do not have a vocabulary for their needs – this is starting to shift, but it is still a work in progress.
- We lead by example – we need to take care of ourselves to show our staff that it is okay to take care of themselves as well. Everyone will benefit as more people take care of themselves.
- There is a multitude of directions our needs can take at any given time. With a little creativity, needs that feel out of reach, can be met within our current life restrictions.
- When we start our day, we should check in with ourselves first, not check our calendar and decide who we are going to be based on those expectations.
“You are the vessel for everything you do. All of your work comes through you. If you’re not in good working order, that automatically impacts the work that you’re doing.” — Mara Glatzel
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About Mara Glatzel, Writer, Teacher + Podcast Host
Mara Glatzel, MSW (she/her) is an author, intuitive coach, and podcast host who helps humans stop abandoning themselves and start reclaiming their humanity through embracing their needs and honoring their natural energy rhythms. Her superpower is saying what you need to hear when you need to hear it and she is here to help you believe in yourself as much as she believes in you. Find out more at MaraGlatzel.com.
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Book: Needy: How to Advocate For Your Needs and Claim Your Sovereignty https://www.maraglatzel.com/book/
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FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW
Welcome to the empathy edge podcast, the show that proves why cashflow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host Maria Ross. I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society, it’s great for business. You’re so needy. We say that like it’s an insult sometimes. But yes, yes, you are needy. I’m needy, because we’re human. And until we can learn to identify our needs, find the words to articulate them, and adjust our schedules and interactions on any given day. To accommodate them, we are doomed to burn out and be more unproductive than we ever thought possible. My guest today is Maura glatzel, author of MIDI, how to advocate for your needs and claim your sovereignty. She’s an author, intuitive coach, and podcast host who helps humans stop abandoning themselves and start reclaiming their humanity through embracing their needs, and honoring their natural energy rhythms. Today we discuss how high achievers can identify and honor our own needs, and how it helps us show up in the workplace as more empathetic leaders and better able to respond and perform in healthy creative ways. And how you can identify center and advocate for your needs. In a world or workplace that is not aligned with your values. Mara shares one way to be kind and generous to ourselves every day, and talks about moving your relationship with yourself from a place of self abandonment to self partnership. Finally, we tackle how to balance your needs while avoiding selfishness. Which is kind of a trick question. As you’ll learn. This was such a great episode full of useful insights for your work and life. Take a listen. Quick offer for you. Listen up all your marketers, business owners, entrepreneurs, all of you trying to connect and engage with an audience to grow your impact in revenue. I’m all about strengthening empathy to achieve radical success. And this all started for me in my wheelhouse of marketing. See, I realized the key to attracting and engaging the right customers is all about understanding them seeing things from their point of view. Empathy is a marketers superpower if it’s wielded responsibly. So after running two successful real time cohorts, I now opening up my brand story breakthrough course as an on demand offering. Take it when you want how you want for as long as you want five modules of videos and playbooks designed to help you articulate your goals. Understand your customers define your different and land on your perfect brand story and marketing message. So you stand out and attract that perfect fit audience. Marketing is not about lying to people. It’s about empathy, elevating the truth of your story. And in this on demand course you’ll learn the exact steps that my past brand clients have gone through to craft a clear and compelling and consistent brand message that guides everything you do. You’ll walk away with a brand story strategy, ideal customer profiles, and even website and social media profile copy. Plus, with this on demand course you get access to weekly Friday office hours with me. Yep, ask questions, get feedback, share new memes discover new insights to help your business shine. It’s insanely cost effective and extremely valuable to your business and goals. So check out the details@bit.ly slash BSB course that’s bi T dot L y slash V S v course or Click the link in the show notes. See you on the other side. Hello, Mara, welcome to the empathy edge podcast. I am excited to have this talk to you about why it’s essential to be needy. If you want to be a strong high performer, welcome to the show. Thanks
Mara Glatzel 05:18
for having me. I love this topic. So I’m excited to dive in, clearly,
Maria Ross 05:22
and you know, just want to remind people again, the book that you wrote, that brought us together is called MIDI, how to advocate for your needs and claim your sovereignty. Now, we talked just before we started recording that a lot of my listeners are high performers, high achievers, many in the C suite, many aspiring to be in the C suite. So they might be a little uncomfortable with this squishy word of being needy. Right. So before we dive into that, tell us a little bit about your story and how you even got to this work. Who were the kinds of people you work with? Yeah.
Mara Glatzel 05:54
So the background piece to this is that I am one of these high performing people. And I was in my social work programs about 12 years ago and about to graduate and just really burning out significantly for the first time in my life and realizing I’m not able to continue doing things the way that I had which is putting all my needs on the backburner and performing at all costs. And I was an expert in what was expected of me and in an absolute novice in pretty much everything else like about what I wanted what I needed. And so this work is born out of that, over the course of the last 12 years, I have been working for myself and a private coaching practice, I do run your long programs and retreats and work with perfectionist, ambitious, human, I
Maria Ross 06:51
am a second year high
Mara Glatzel 06:52
performers, people who are really socialized into believing this is the track to success. And I mean success, not just in a professional capacity, but also in a relational capacity. You know, I find that, that my clients really struggle in both of these areas. And it’s like, can I bring my full self here? Or does bringing my full self here in danger, everything that I’ve built, which I think is such a big fear. And my work now really delves into needs, what we need, how to ask for it, I would say the word needy is complicated for many of us, and yet is something that we can and should reclaim in order to find that sweet spot between showing up in the world the way that we want to and also bringing our body along for the ride with us.
Maria Ross 07:43
Well, and I think it’s far easier for people to talk about needs than this concept of being needy because there’s a stigma around neediness, you’re clingy, you’re whiny, you’re not able to help yourself. That’s that’s the perception, the narrative that people have around the word needy. So how can we identify and honor our own needs? How does that? How does that help us show up in the workplace as strong leaders or strong performers? What are some ways that we can even start to go? Well, I don’t know what I need. How can we start identifying? Yeah, I
Mara Glatzel 08:20
think that many of us who are high performers are accustomed to looking outside of ourselves for those kinds of answers. And so we might listen to a lot of podcasts or read a lot of books, and I love I love books, I love podcasts. But when it comes to figuring out what you need, and how to ask for it. The first step is really to turn towards yourself and to build a relationship with yourself. Many of us are accustomed to performance and productivity, at the cost of being in relationship with ourselves. And we sort of falsely assume well, I’m with myself every day all day. But that’s a quantity over quality relationship. And the answers that we’re looking for when it comes to our needs come from inside of us and not from outside of us. And so I always recommend that people begin with starting the conversation. The great thing about needs is that many of us, for many of us, this is a transferable skill, we are acquainted with and accustomed to understanding other people’s needs, right? Because there are people sitting with us in a room around the table, we need to know where they are or how they are in order to adjust ourselves or proceed forward. And so it’s taking some of those skills and turning them on ourselves. asking ourselves genuinely, how are you doing right now? What do you need, right? Oh, by and large, we don’t have a vocabulary for needs. I think that this has started shifting over the last five years, which is fantastic. But that’s one of the main reasons that I wrote. MIDI is to give us more words for how to talk about what we need. And even what we’re allowed to need, because 10 years ago, if somebody asked me, Well, what do you need? I would have been stymied by that question. I would have thought, well, what’s on the table? What are we even taught on my art? What
Maria Ross 10:13
am I a lot of buffet? Yeah, what
Mara Glatzel 10:15
am I allowed to need? Because how I had been socialized was to see that in a really, really narrow scope, like, maybe I need some water, maybe I need some rest, maybe I actually think those things are optional. But certainly not asking for more than that. And so the conversation about needs really begins with being in relationship with yourself in these small ways. What do I need to eat? What do I want to eat for breakfast? I need to feel like I can contribute to the world in a way that’s meaningful, and also be the human that I am, you know, we have this all or nothing approach baked in. And we think, Well, you know, I have so many clients who say, Oh, well, this must work for you, because you work for yourself. But I work a nine to five job and so I can’t have needs there. And what I hear is that it is more difficult to have needs in the places where it feels as though in order to meet our need for safety, we can’t have any other needs. So when that comes to a professional capacity to keep a roof over my head, to keep earning this paycheck, I can’t have needs. And in between that all or nothing, all needs are no needs. There’s so much nuance in so much gray zone. And that really begins with turning towards yourself and getting curious about what you need, even before you might be able to figure out how to get those needs
Maria Ross 11:39
met? Well, and I think part of it is also the first step is actually admitting to yourself that you have the need. I know it took me decades before I could admit, yeah, what gives me job satisfaction is validation, and recognition. I used to bury that, because in my mind, that was too needy. That was too that I felt like that came from a place of insecurity. And it wasn’t that it was from a place of just that’s what lights me up that I, when I get that validation or their recognition, I know that I’m making a difference, which is a very different way to look at that. But I think sometimes we think our needs are not worthy, or we or we judge our own needs, and we don’t admit them even to ourselves. We’re like, I’m fine. I’m fine, I’m fine, right? I don’t I don’t need that other people might need that, but I don’t need that. And then we you know, burnout, we get resentful, we get cranky. All all of the things. So how can people How can high performing leaders, you know, if you’re talking to a CEO of a global company, who might say I don’t need anything right now I’ve got it i It’s handled? How could they start getting curious about what might they need to be an even better version of themselves?
Mara Glatzel 12:55
Yeah, so I like to think about it in the way that you are the vessel for everything that you do. You, you know, all of your work comes through you. And so if you’re not in good working order, that automatically impacts the work that you’re doing the people who are below you in the organization, in a multitude of ways. And this is an absolute importance. No, we may have been socialized to work, kind of at all costs at any cost and perform and put that at the top of the hierarchy when it comes to success. But in doing that, we are inherently creating an unsustainable and unstable ecosystem. Because if we’re at the top, and everything comes through us, and we are operating in this way that doesn’t have any space for our humanity, then we are setting ourselves up for burnout, for burning out our staff, we’re leading by example. And we’re showing them this is the one right way to get things done. This is the only acceptable way to show up here. And yet, we’re wondering why we have this staff turnover or why we have these mental health crises amongst our employees. And this isn’t to say that, you know, we completely reject the the way that our organization has been operating. But it’s not an enormous shift to bring in a sense that my energy is not stable 24/7 365 days a year, as a human being there are going to be fluctuations as it relates to my productivity, my capacity, my output. And the same is true for everybody. That works for me. So even just acknowledging that even just making space for that, or I’m moving a little bit more slowly today, or there are seasons during the year that I’m not as available, emotionally, intellectually and how to And we make that work for us, instead of seeing it as this huge liability, that idea that what is right and good is to be high vibration all of the time is harming us. And mentally, it really is okay to admit that that’s not true, because it’s not right. And human. Yeah, absolutely. And the more that we can bring in, especially when we’re at the top of a hierarchy in an organization, the more permission that we give the people who are working with and for us to do the same. And that impacts the health of the entire organization, which is good business. Exactly.
Maria Ross 15:40
That’s the point of all of this is, if you say you’re a high performer, and a high achiever, then you should care about this stuff. This isn’t just fluffy, woowoo, I don’t have time for this. This is the stuff this is the work that optimizes performance for people. And I hate to just bring it back to performance. But if that’s what a leader needs to hear, to make it get through the that this is worth spending time on, then that’s the language we need to talk, that’s where I try to get the empathetic towards the leaders in my audience and in my community is, if that’s how you need to hear about this great if that, if that’s what gets you to drink, you know, lead the horse to water, then fine, because you’re going to see the benefits of it when you start to pay attention to this. And as you were talking, it made me think about just how we even start to learn to listen to our bodies, right? In terms of working out, let’s say, you know, I know, when I work out, there’s days, I can go really hard. And then there’s days I go, you know, it’s just not that day, right? And I need to go easy today, or I need to like this morning, not work out today. I’ve got too much on my plate today. It’s going to be too, too much. And this is what I know, I kind of frame it in terms of like, what do I need today. And it took a long time, you know, I’m 50. Now it took a long time to get to that point where it was okay to ask myself what I need in order to perform at my highest potential for that day. And so I just want to encourage leaders to get into the practice every morning, of not only getting into their body of like, How does my body feel today? But how’s my soul today? How’s my brain? Am I Am I sluggish and slow? am I sad? Am I fired up? Like do that check in with yourself. So then you can say okay, so what do I need today? To make sure that I can still perform? And now how do you relate the physical and the the mental, the spiritual in terms of needs? Do you find that some folks are more amenable to opening the conversation about needs when they’re talking about their physical body? How does that play out in your work? Absolutely.
Mara Glatzel 17:57
And that is what we know, to talk about when we talk about needs. And that’s okay, because actually a lot of things kind of click into place if our physical bodies are in good working order. And so I recommend starting with whatever feels closest to you. Because the reality is in order to have the capacity to even be in conversation with ourselves, our physical needs, which stabilize our energy are prerequisites. Right? So are you drinking enough water? Are you maintaining stable blood sugar? Are you eating throughout the day? Are you eating breakfast? I’m a huge breakfast permanent? are you how are you sleeping? How are you moving your body? How are your work life boundaries, which I know is a hot topic. But by that I really mean are there spaces in your life where you are able where you allow yourself to disconnect and unplug even if it’s a small period of time. And so starting with our physical bodies, I think is close for many of us, and also freaky for many of us. Because toxic productivity culture and diet culture are really interwoven here. And so many of us have received a lot of mixed messages about what it means to listen to our bodies. And we may have been taught that our bodies are not to be listened to our hungers are not to be listened to. And so this is really being in relationship with yourself is a little bit counterculture in this way. But we also talk about self care all the time. And we have these listicles of this is what self care looks like. And from my perspective, self care. True Self Care is responsive and not prescriptive. And what that means is essentially what you’re saying, turning towards yourself and asking, What do I need today and doing that thing, instead of having this framework in our minds that we’re completely inflexible about You know, I have to have my perfect morning routine. And I have to do this and do this and do this and do this. Think of that instead is a menu of options that are available to you. But the most powerful and supportive self care is occurs when we turn towards ourselves and ask, you know, what do I need right now? And can I give myself that thing? Or can I give myself? What are the different options that are available for meeting that need today? Because, you know, I might need a sense of adventure that a trip to the Azores seems to be the only answer for but actually, you know, I could walk my dog on a different path today and find myself somewhere unknown to me that there is this spectrum for all of the needs that we have. And so when we experience a need, and many times we’re hyper focused on that one doorway, we want that need to walk through and we think or person, right, we have needs, and we think these can only be met through this one person. We forget that our needs are our responsibility. They, you know, live and end through us, even if we’re asking other we’re advocating for those needs in our relationships, we’re asking for other people to support us in meeting that need, that the more creative and open minded that we can be around, okay, well, how might it be possible to meet this need, who might be available? Maybe there are, there’s a multitude of directions that I could take this in, gives us that freedom and that autonomy, but ultimately, that self responsibility for our needs.
Maria Ross 21:41
Such good stuff, I mean, so much in there. I’d like to just ask a quick question, because you have talked about the steps to growing your relationship with yourself, from self abandonment to self partnership. Can you explain what that means? And how are there people out there who don’t even know that their relationship with themselves is coming from a place of self abandonment? And if so, how can they tell you no.
Mara Glatzel 22:12
Love laughing because I think most of us actually are in a relationship with ourselves that is riddled with self abandonment. And by that, I mean, we do not take ourselves into consideration. So a small example of this might be, I used to look at my account, wake up, look at my calendar for the day, look at my to do list and decide who and how I was, in order to fit my calendar. In order to fit my to do list. I was like, Well, this is who I have to be today. So it doesn’t matter how I actually am, I’m not even going to ask because I don’t care. I only care about being the person who has to show up to do X, Y, and Z thing. And then at the end of the day, those things didn’t happen as planned. I’m beating myself up, I’m feeling this sense of what’s wrong with me. And I’m not acknowledging that I set myself up by zooming or right past, talking to myself this morning, and write to Okay, well, this is the day, so make it work. And that in and of itself is an example of self abandonment that many of us operate in or, you know, we see our relationships and we think, Well, this is a relationship that I want to maintain. And this is who I need to be, in order to ensure that this relationship keeps going the way that I want it to be going doesn’t matter how I’m actually doing because belonging, the need for belonging is so close to the need for safety that we force ourselves into a direction without taking the time to genuinely acknowledge that we may be having feelings, we may be having a human experience, we may have needs that are incompatible with the relationship, which doesn’t mean the relationship is doomed. But it does mean that there are things for us to contend with. So for example, now, instead of looking at my to do list and that my schedule for the day, I take that look, I have little kids, so they are in my room in 2.2 seconds. So I take those 2.2 seconds to check in with myself and just see how am I doing today? How am I waking up? Am I more tired than usual? Do I feel dehydrated? Is my body sore? Am I anxious this morning? And that’s all information for me. It doesn’t mean that it necessarily changes the things on my schedule, but it does tell me okay, you know, I am going to need to close my laptop at five o’clock after everything’s done and really take a break. Or I’m going to need to plan on a certain kind of dinner or I’m going to need to plan on takeout because this day is really busy and I don’t want to think about dinner or I’m going to make sure that I have more water today, or I’m going to schedule a call with my therapist for next week. So I’m noticing how I’m feeling this morning, being responsive to yourself and thinking about how can I make it by which I mean, my life today as I anticipate it to go down, work in a way that is as sustainable and as kind to myself as possible? And
Maria Ross 25:24
is that what you mean by self partnership? Because you’re almost you’re almost coaching yourself at that point? Yeah,
Mara Glatzel 25:30
you’re just like, hey, hey, self, we are
Maria Ross 25:32
in this together this together totally Yeah,
Mara Glatzel 25:35
you know, if I want to be at this interview, and I want to bring the best version of myself possible, I’m going to make sure that I’ve eaten, I’m going to make sure that I drink some water, I’m going to make sure that I you know, I took a shower, because I was feeling a little just like fuzzy and I wanted to get more focused, those are the things that I needed in order to do what I wanted to do, which is to show up here with as much of myself as possible. So self partnership is really about working with yourself to achieve those goals that you have set,
Maria Ross 26:07
right. And what I want to point out here for my high achieving listeners, who are saying, you know, you’re again, you’re the CEO of a company, I wish I had that luxury, I have to worry about all these people and the numbers on the board and the meetings that I have, you can take those few minutes every morning, to check in with yourself, there is no excuse. You can do that, wherever you are. But the it’s, I think it’s the act of doing it, that so many high achievers make the excuse that they don’t have time for it. And yet, like you’re saying, your day is going to be, you know, again, I don’t want to do this at the false altar of productivity. But your day is going to be more productive if you take those few minutes to check in with yourself. And make sure that you create the day and create the space that you need to be where you are in that particular moment in time. That’s how you’re going to achieve the best version of yourself for that day, and be the leader that people need that day. So if you know, you’re checking in and you’re having a rough time this morning, maybe you do need to take a few meetings off your calendar, maybe this is not the day to, you know, you’re not gonna be able to change the board meeting. But maybe this is not the day to start a new project that you’re going to start, maybe this is not the day to, you know, have that difficult conversation with a colleague, maybe you do have to punt it to the next day. But you don’t know that unless you’re actually checking in with yourself. And then you can avoid those situations that become unproductive at best, and become contentious at worst. Yeah.
Mara Glatzel 27:48
And I think additionally to I am thinking about thickening the narrative about what success looks like to include your felt experience of that day. Mm hmm. And really reminding everybody who’s listening that no matter where you are in the hierarchy of an organization, that your felt experience of your life matters. And we have this belief that self care or attending to our needs has to look a certain way, maybe we do it on vacation or when we have wide swaths of time and our calendar and who has that, or a certain amount of money in our bank account and who has enough and I’m really talking about doing what we can with what we have, and removing the edges of perfectionism that come into how we take care of ourselves so that we’re making it work. And it may not look like the entirety as I said, I may not be zooming off to the Azores today as much as my heart desires to. But I am finding a new path to walk on with my dog during the walk that I’m already taking this morning. Because my dog needs to go out I’m already taking instead going on that walk that I always go on, maybe I’m gonna try something different. And so doing what we can with what we have is such powerful medicine because when we get into that pattern of postponing tending to our needs, there’s always going to be a reason to punt it out, there’s always going to be a reason to postpone it. And we’ll get to the end of our lives. And we’ll have been postponing it in entirety or we’ll get to a place of deep burnout and will wonder how did I get into this self care emergency. And many of us are operating in such a way that we only take care of ourselves when it is an emergency and we only kind of nurse ourselves back to health enough to get back in the game. Inevitably setting up this cycle of creating the need for that emergency self care to begin with,
Maria Ross 29:44
right? And what kind of a performer productive performer that is that make you if you’re constantly going to our cycle. So again, it’s like going back to okay if we need to speak in that language to ambitious people let speak in that language. You’re you’re going to continue to prove For and poorly, if you if you don’t take this time to, to address your needs and to help identify your needs. And given that I want to ask a provocative question here, how can people identify center and advocate for their needs in an environment that might not be aligned with their values? So, you know, in an environment, whether it’s the world, the whether it’s your country, whether it’s your workplace, how can we identify those needs that that are making me making us feel a certain way or making us react in certain ways that we’re starting to recognize are not healthy. But what do we do to start articulating and identifying that
Mara Glatzel 30:50
what we don’t do is take our needs into places that we can predict, are not friendly for those needs, we don’t start. We can assume, you know, we can sit here and say, Well, my needs don’t matter be because of so many variables that I can’t control. And the reality is, in a world riddled with structural oppression in a world that, you know, these measures of success and productivity often are not humane in nature, that the world doesn’t care about your needs. I think we can start there. And also, how are you committing to being a tender steward of your needs, regardless of what is happening in the world around you? As I was going to write needy, many people on my editorial staff wanted me to begin in the place of well, how do we bring our needs to the world around us? And there’s a lot of work that has to that is in and around that in the world now. What I really wanted to start with is how do we begin the conversation with ourselves so that we are allowing ourselves to have needs, we’re allowing ourselves to have references in everything, all of the micro decisions that we’re making over the course of the day. So starting with I am a person who has needs, I have needs to be fed, visibly nourished multiple times over the course of the day, many of us are not doing that many of us are, you know, drinking coffee until we can’t stand it anymore. And then, you know, inevitably succumbing to something that’s not nutritious and eating it while we’re running from one place to another. So even just that, in my choices that I am making, in my relationship with myself every day, am I drinking water, am I feeding myself, and I commit to going to bed at a certain time or attempting to every single night, starting with how you are treating yourself and taking responsibility for that, instead of starting with something that’s much higher test. As I said before, bringing your needs to the workplace a bump up against that, that need for safety, because you think I need this job in order to be safe, and that feels inherently very scary. might also feel like oh, well, I so many of my clients say to me, my I can talk to other people about my needs, but talking about my needs to my partner feels so scary. Well, again, the risk might be really high, you might be worried, well, if this person is unhappy with me, or if I’m asking for something that is impossible, as I can see it in my relationship, that’s really risky. That may feel much more risky than saying no to a colleague or to an acquaintance when they asked to meet for coffee when I don’t have time. So start where you are comfortable and build up from there. Because the more that you can authentically believe that you are allowed to have needs, the more confident you’re going to be in and also the more creative you’re going to be in thinking about how to get those needs met. Right? Because, you know, we have that that association of I need that needs to be met in this way. But the more we’re in communication with ourselves, the more that we can see, okay, well, there might be multiple avenues for that, and I’m open to an inflexible around it.
Maria Ross 34:22
So a couple of things in there that you mentioned. Well, number one, it’s the it’s the classic control what you can control, right and start with what you have agency over instead of just giving up on it because you can’t control the entire system or the world or the patriarchy or capitalism or just the culture of your company, you know, whatever it is, but also this idea of like, we also don’t have to take this big leap of announcing our needs necessarily, it’s like as long as we can identify them for the for ourselves. Maybe we manage the way we’re getting the work done and our particular day. No, you know, if you feel weird about nobody else has to know, like, just if that’s what you need, if you need a walk before you start work and you work from home, you don’t have to announce that to your whole team. Like, there’s things you can do, I think that’s the scary part for a lot of people is they have this image of, oh, if I’m needy, that means I come into work. And I have, you know, I gather everyone together. And I say, today, I’m feeling sluggish teams. So I’m going to do this that the other thing, just do it just, you make the time in your own schedule, or in the own way that you’re your own way that you’re working that day. It doesn’t have to be if that scares you. And you can tell me if you disagree with this. But it doesn’t have to be this big proclamation that you’re making people, I think that’s the part that scares a lot of leaders of like, Oh, I’m just going to make this a thing. Every day that I’m gonna have to like, tell my team where I am every day. Start with just admitting it to yourself, and structure your day accordingly. And nobody else has to know. They don’t, you know, not that you want to hide it. It’s not something to be embarrassed about. But, you know, sometimes no, is enough. You don’t have to know as an answer in and of itself. No, I can’t meet your for coffee. No, I’m going to need to move that meeting to tomorrow. No, I can’t meet till after 11 o’clock. And I don’t need to give any further explanation. But I can still go about my day. And so I think that’s a big hurdle for people is like thinking that they have to make this grand pronouncement about their needs. I’m curious what you think of that, because that’s kind of what I part of what I’m taking away. Not that we don’t want to be a model of expressing our needs. But it’s almost like if that’s the baby step you need to take.
Mara Glatzel 36:47
Can I take? Yeah, absolutely. And I would say that is not a baby step. That’s a pretty big step. You have to use but yeah, it did you yourself. Oh, yeah, that’s a that is a big step. And it’s really important. And this is why, you know, I wrote almost the entirety of needy about rebuilding that relationship and connection and self trust with yourself. Because before you can teach your team, how to honor their needs, you have to learn how to honor your own. And I think before even a step before that step is when we are acknowledging that we have needs is putting our experience into context, one way we can be really kind and generous to ourselves every single day is just to make sense of things. So nothing disturbs me more personally, than when we say, I don’t know why I’m so exhausted today. Right? We do ourselves harm. When we say I don’t know why I don’t know what’s wrong with me. So you know, if I were feeling tired this morning, I might say a to myself, I’m feeling exhausted today, because it was my partner’s birthday this weekend. And I was like a major birthday fairy, there was so much going on. And my four year old has started sleeping in our bed in the middle of the night randomly. So last night, she climbed in at about four o’clock and was kicking me in the back until the alarm went off. So I know why I’m tired. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to show up today. But just that piece of putting things into perspective for yourself. So you’re saying, you’re beginning with self compassion. It’s not an excuse. It’s an acknowledgement. I’m tired, because I have been, you know, I’m putting energy into my relationship. I’m putting energy into parenting my child and doing what I think is important at this stage of her life. And also, I’m a person who owns her own business and is working today. I am multiple things, and I can’t expect that I’m going to be able to do everything perfectly. And so on a after a weekend where I was putting a lot of energy in one direction, it only makes sense that I have less energy for this direction. That doesn’t mean that I won’t recoup by the end of the week, I probably will. That doesn’t mean I don’t show up today, I’m here. But just that peace of self compassion and acknowledgement of it’s not that I can’t bracket or whatever unkind thing I’m saying to myself, it’s just I am a person with a limited capacity. And I’ve been using that capacity in a multitude of ways. This bill yesterday, today, the last couple of days.
Maria Ross 39:31
I want to ask you one last question, because I know this is on the minds of people and maybe people listening to this episode, which is how can we and do we need to recognize the line between identifying our needs and when it starts to spill into quote unquote, selfish behavior. If people are concerned with if I start identifying my needs, I’m going to be perceived as selfish. Sure I’m going to actually become selfish. What advice would you give about even? Number one, whether they should even be worrying about that question? And number two, how can folks recognize that line of where their needs might be overtaking the work, or the needs of the team in a non productive way?
Mara Glatzel 40:22
I have never met a selfish person who is concerned with whether or not they’re selfish. So I think that by and large, if you’re worried about whether or not you’re selfish, you can safely say, probably not. Now, that said, this doesn’t mean that that acknowledging our needs doesn’t mean we’re gonna get all of our needs met. You know, people often ask me, Well, you know, you’re like, this needs person, right? All of your needs must be met all of the time, which I find Adorably hilarious, because I have a four year old and a seven year old, right, and a partner and a really wild puppy. And there’s a lot of things going on in my life, that I am making work, right. And so being in right relationship with myself means that I can be an honest part of the ecosystem. Because what’s not honest is to say, I don’t have any needs, and you know what, I’m gonna blow up later, everything’s gonna become a total mess, I’m gonna, you know, I’m gonna burn out, right? There is a selfishness. She’s sacrificing your needs and setting up inevitable burnout. As a high achiever. This was my first lesson, this was my first foray into self care was, Wow, that sucks. It really, really sucks to burnout, to have the rug pulled out from underneath you. And actually, if I care about my work, or if I care about my kids, or if I care about my relationship, I have to care about myself. Because otherwise, I’m setting things up so that other people are negatively impacted by me not prioritizing or acknowledging my needs.
Maria Ross 42:09
Mike drop. Thank you for that. Oh, my gosh, it’s such a great conversation. As with so many of my guests, I could talk to you for another two hours. But we’re out of time. So Maura, can you let folks know we’re gonna have all the links to your show notes? Sorry, links for you in our show notes. But can you tell people that might be listening on the go, where they can get in touch with you or find out about your work?
Mara Glatzel 42:33
Yeah, come hang out with me at Maura glatzel.com. That’s where you can find absolutely everything about me and my programs or come chat with me on Instagram. I’m often there.
Maria Ross 42:45
Love it. And again, we will have those links in the show notes. Mara, thank you so much for your time and insights today, it was really, I think it’s going to be not only helpful for me personally, but for many, many of our listeners. So thank you.
Mara Glatzel 42:57
Thanks for having me. This was fantastic. And thank you everyone for listening
Maria Ross 43:01
to another episode of the empathy edge podcast. If you like what you heard you know what to do, please rate and review and share it with a friend or colleague. And until next time, please remember that cashflow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind. For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy, visit the empathy edge.com. There you can listen to past episodes, access shownotes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice Maria. Never forget empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
