Hispanic. Women. Gay. Transgender. Neurodiverse. Black. All of these identities make up the rich mosaic of our workplaces. We know the data shows that diverse experiences drive better business decisions to identify unseen risks or opportunities, but have you considered this next group we talk about today – First Generation Professionals? This is a group that studies show exhibits a strong percentage of loyalty, motivation, and desire to pursue management positions. They should definitely be considered when looking at your talent pipeline.
My guest today is Michelle Hoover. We talk about who FGPs are and why investing in them is a win for your company. Michelle shares a little about what makes them tick (especially given her own identity as an FGP) and why understanding this will help you practice empathy if you misunderstand certain behaviors. We discuss the difference between experience and identity, what holds FGPs back, how to practice conscious curiosity, and, specifically, what you can do to harness their potential to help your organization succeed. You will leave appreciating the power of acknowledging diverse groups in your organization through mentoring and ERGs, instead of seeing such diversity as a burden.
To access this episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- Confronting your fears is a great way to grow, evolve, transform, and gain confidence.
- Especially with first-generation professionals, their background, family, and upbringing influence them in the business world. That’s something important we need to recognize in terms of being empathetic in the workplace.
- 81% of first-generation college students cite financial stability as their reason for pursuing a college degree. They are motivated to achieve some level of financial success and stability.
- Many FGPs don’t know how to play the corporate games for promotion, they were never taught. Without empathy to see their side, leaders may see it as a lack of drive, proactivity, and initiative when that is far from the truth.
“This is your leadership pipeline, and this helps with more early career retention strategies.”
— Michelle Hoover
From Our Partner:
Download the 2024 Ninth Annual State of Workplace Empathy study from Businessolver: www.businessolver.com/edge
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About Michelle Hoover, Principal, Baem Leadership
Michelle Hoover is a leadership development strategist, advisor, and executive coach. A trusted thought partner to CEOs and business leaders, she has designed, delivered, and facilitated talent-development programs for more than 15,000 learners across five continents in her 19 years in leadership development.
Michelle is the founder of Baem Leadership, a strategic consultancy that advises global corporations, mid-stage startups, and purpose-driven organizations on empowering and emboldening their leaders — especially First-Generation Professionals — to lead themselves and their teams more effectively.
Connect with Michelle Hoover:
Baem Leadership: https://www.baemleadership.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/myhoover/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baemleadership/
Newsletter: https://baemleadership.substack.com/
Connect with Maria:
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FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW:
Maria, welcome to the empathy edge podcast, the show that proves why cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host, Maria Ross, I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy, from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society. It’s great for business, Hispanic, women, gay, transgender, neurodiverse, black, all of these identities make up the rich mosaic of our workplaces. We know the data shows that diverse experiences drive better business decisions to identify unseen risks or opportunities. But have you considered this next group we’re going to talk about today, first generation professionals. This is a group in your workplace that studies show exhibit a strong percentage of more loyalty, motivation and desire to pursue management positions. They should definitely be considered when looking at your leadership pipeline. My guest today is Michelle Hoover, principal of bem leadership. She’s a leadership development strategist, advisor and executive coach, a trusted thought partner to CEOs and business leaders. She has designed, delivered and facilitated talent development programs for more than 15,000 leaders across five continents and for 19 years in leadership development. Michelle is the founder of bem leadership, a strategic consultancy that advises global corporations, mid stage startups and purpose driven organizations on empowering and emboldening their leaders, especially first generation professionals, to lead themselves and their teams more effectively. We talked today about who fgps are and why investing in them is a win for your company. Michelle shares a little bit of it about what makes them tick, especially given her own identity as an FGP and why understanding this will help you practice empathy if you misunderstand certain behaviors, we discuss the difference between experience and identity, what holds fgps back, how to practice conscious curiosity, and specifically what you can do to harness their potential to help your organization succeed, you’ll leave appreciating the power of acknowledging diverse groups in your organization, your mentoring and ERGs, instead of seeing such diversity as a burden. Take a listen. Welcome Michelle Hoover to the empathy edge podcast to tell us all about first generation professionals and how to harness their talent and experiences for success. Welcome to the empathy edge.
Michelle Hoover 03:07
Thank you, Maria, great to be here with you,
Maria Ross 03:10
and I’m so excited to talk to you, because you are mentioned in my new book The Empathy dilemma, how successful leaders balance performance people and personal boundaries, specifically around this vector of diversity that is a new one. It was new when I came across you and your work, this idea of first generation professionals in the mosaic that is, you know, diversity, whether it’s gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, sexual identity, disability, neurodiversity. So I’m excited to get into this conversation with you, but before we begin, as I do with all my guests, I want to hear a little bit about your story and how you got into leadership empowerment, and specifically to this topic of first generation professionals. Sure,
Michelle Hoover 03:55
this is a very personal endeavor that I think can have more impact beyond just me and my circle and the people that I talk to every day. So I’m a first generation American. I am the first member of my family, born in the United States. My family emigrated from South Korea after the ravages of the war and ended up in Patel, Pennsylvania, which is a coal mining town and is known for being home to America’s oldest brewery. So very, very working class ethos, and that’s what I grew up with, and that, combined with my my Korean heritage, my DNA as a Korean person, and my experience as somebody who was from an immigrant family led to a set of decisions that miraculously got me to where I am today. So decision number one major in journalism instead of English. And before that, I was a before I got to college, I was a really committed student journalist. While in high school, I was on every publication and was and was fortunate enough to be part of a program that was nationally recognized. And as such, we were asked to teach at the Pennsylvania Association of, you know, student journalists, or whatever it’s called, and CSPA Columbia Scholastic Press Association. And that led to me assuming the role of facilitator and subject matter expert at age, you know, 15 through 17, and realizing that, okay, like I, I know how to deliver content, I know how to engage an audience, and not that I explicitly understood that, but I liked how it felt, and I liked, you know, that I was, I felt like I was making a difference. So the reason why majoring in journalism and not English was is, is, is really, really important in this FGP story, is because first generation professionals often major in things or pursue paths that lead to actual careers, accountancy, engineering, journalism, medicine. There’s no way, exactly, there’s no way I could tell my parents I’m going to major in English and become a creative writer, right? Like there’s no way I can do that, so I majored in journalism. Did well. Was a working journalist from 17 to 27 had my had several newspaper internships from age 20 onward, and ended up at the Philadelphia grower, which was, at the time, the first, the fourth largest media market in the in the country, which is, you know, pretty great for somebody like me who comes from limited resources and had limited guidance, which is all very typical of a first generation professional. Was there for four years, spent the last two years on the sports desk, which was a surprise, of all surprises, they they needed some additional talent over there, and decided that I would be the person to do it. And critical decision number two was that I decided to lead journalism and pursue a master’s master’s degree, and I didn’t know exactly what, but I knew that I wasn’t going to be a journalist for the rest of my life, and because there was something about the newsroom dynamic that I couldn’t quite put my finger on, that I didn’t, you know, I it didn’t really align with what I now know, our values, but, you know, it didn’t like feel great to me as a 23 year old person. So I decided that I would pursue a master’s degree in education with the belief that I was going to influence how journalists were trained. So the goal at the time was to be an administrator in the School of Communications. But then I get to graduate school, and I get exposed to all this stuff, organizational behavior, leadership, theory, culture is the thing to be studied. And I’m like, Oh, this is actually what I want to do, which leads to critical decision number three, which is to join Duke corporate education, which is, is a small, basically, consulting firm that is a spin off of Duke University. And at the time, it was number one as ranked by business League and ft in providing customized executive education. They’re still doing pretty well in that regard, and that’s where I learned how to do this work, leadership development, management development, I’ve been doing it for about 20 years, and led to connections and relationships and just this amazing network of people that continue to teach me, inspire me, encourage me, and support me in everything that I do. Yeah, yeah.
Maria Ross 08:52
And you know, and you and you’ve been an expert in this field for a long time. I really want you to share with our audience the story of the name of your company that you just shared with me before we started recording, because I think it’s really interesting why you decided to call your company bem
Michelle Hoover 09:08
Sure. So the name of my company is Ben leadership. It’s spelled B, A, E, N, and Ben is the Korean word for snake. There are two key reasons why I need my company, then leadership. Number one is, I was born in 1977 and that is the year of the snake, and my grandmother was very clear about what this would mean for me. You’re You’re a snake, therefore you are not. Let’s see if you become but no, you’re a snake, therefore you are bright, you are crafty, you can solve problems, you can, you know, you can just be really, really thoughtful. So these are traits that I believe I developed or inhabited, depending on which way you look at it. And. Are really aspirational for me, and therefore they are aspirational my clients as well, not because I want them to be like me, but because I think that they’re great overall qualities, the positive attributes of this symbol. The second is that I was once terrified of snakes, so I was a New Yorker for 17 years. And if you walk through Central Park, there’s a particular underpass that you go through, and on certain days, you will run into a guide there with a huge boa constrictor or a Python. I don’t know the differences, huge. It’s like more than, like, 12 feet long, and it’s huge. And I would see that guy, and I would just 180 and run as fast as I could in the opposite direction. I was that afraid of snakes. I couldn’t see snakes on TV. It was like almost a phobia. And so you’re asking, like, Okay, you would obviously do not have affection for these creatures. Why would you name your company after them? And it’s because it’s, I don’t know if it’s proven scientifically, but I think we could just all agree that confronting your fears are a great way to grow and evolve and transform and gain confidence. And I can say that after running into that guy after 17 years, and you know, each time walking a little bit closer, I don’t have to run as fast as I can. You know? The other way I’m more comfortable with that. So if we, if I like to think of that metaphor or that example as an example of how we grow as a result of confronting our fears. And every day, I wake up and I am reminded to confront I love it. I’m afraid of I
Maria Ross 11:40
love it. I love it. So let’s dive in. Because, I mean, obviously, let’s define what first generation professionals means. And I just want to make a point that it’s very clear that with first generation professionals, their background and their family and their upbringing influence them in the business world. Clearly, like your family’s heritage and beliefs influenced what you called your company. So I think that’s something important that we really need to recognize in terms of being empathetic with these folks in the workplace. But first, tell us who they are and what are companies missing missing when they don’t factor them in as an audience in terms of diversity and inclusion and belonging. First
Michelle Hoover 12:23
generation professionals are the people who are the first in their families to get a college degree and or obtain a professional position, a managerial position, a leadership position, a professional position in general that is high at a higher level than what their parents were able to accomplish. So this could be the Caucasian man who is they a son of a Chicago firefighter whose mother was an administrative assistant, or it could be somebody like me who is the first in their family to be born in this country and of the first generation to go to college. It could be a newer immigrant to this country whose family is just, you know, putting their feet down here. And it can be somebody who comes from a long line of, you know, public city workers, you know, and just blue collar all the way, but is is inspired for something different in the white collar work world, for themselves, the potential. So
Maria Ross 13:26
that’s really interesting to me, because I think in my mind, I was always thinking first generation professionals, was in terms of being in this country. But what I hear you saying is that it could be anyone, that it’s their first generation, that they’re going to college, or perhaps pursuing a different career or pursuing knowledge work versus the trades, for example. So is that is, Am I hearing that right?
Michelle Hoover 13:47
That’s exactly right. We often ascribe the first generation label to college. So how long has have has your family been in college, essentially, and how long have you been in this country? And there are certainly reasons why we why we do that. And it doesn’t, you know, it makes you think for a second as to how first generation actually applies in the white collar world.
Maria Ross 14:13
Mm, hmm, yeah. And it’s really interesting, because my grandparents immigrated from Italy all four and my, I think I was one of the first I had female cousins on my dad’s side that did go to college, but we were the first generation that did of women that went to college in our families. And it was a thing like, you know, it was, it was a thing in terms of, like, expectation and responsibility and gratitude and all of those things so so tell us a little bit about that, like, what is the mindset of many of these first generation professionals in terms of that responsibility or privilege that they now have vis a vis their family?
Michelle Hoover 14:55
It’s such a great question, and one that would take me probably three days and not. Stops in three minutes, right? I’ll do my best. So I, as I mentioned in my my intro, well, I’ll just back up and say that 81% of first generation college students cite financial stability as their reason for pursuing a college degree. So number one is that they are motivated to achieve, you know, some level of financial success and stability, which when you come from a blue collar background, or when you’re just starting out in this country, that is that that’s the dream. The problem exactly, exactly. So when you are so focused, imagine if you just, you know, substitute, or just use survival as a substitute for stability, right, right. What does that? How does that prompt your decision making? How does that make you think about what choices you actually have and what you may be privy to or what risks you will meet if you do not achieve survival, right? So your choices. I majored in journalism because I was going to write for a newspaper. I was not going to major in creative writing or English so that I could find myself and explore. You know who I am through pros, a lot of first generation college students, and because we are talking about first generation professionals, but there is very little data on first generation professionals, which is why I’m talking about first generation college students. And from there we can make inferences, but if we think about a significant population of first generation professionals are are people who have dependents and who are supporting multi generation households. About 8% of first generation college students have veteran status. They are usually older. They’re they’re 30 and above, versus, you know, the typical age 18 to 21 so you think about where they are in life and what kind of responsibilities they have had, and therefore how their choices feel like they are actually a subset of the larger choices that one actually has available to them, but relative to their life and their slate of responsibilities, this is what’s imposing them. And if we’re talking about, you know, the thing that rules all first generation professionals is this belief that if you will work hard and keep your nose clean, everything will be okay. And frankly, I heard that a ton, because that’s the best same that’s the best advice that my family could offer me. And it’s not wholly untrue. It’s just incomplete, right? We need more than to work hard. We need more than to or we need to aspire for more than just right, for it to be okay, right? So, right
Maria Ross 18:02
first, not to mention all the interpersonal skills and things you learn around mentoring and networking and communication and all of that, which are equally important. I mean, I remember in college, I got an internship at my brother’s company, which meant I wasn’t going to come home for the summer. I was going to go live with my brother in Chicago, and I remember my mom being upset about that, that I wasn’t coming home, and I was trying to explain to her, my grades aren’t enough, like I have to have other things to make me attractive to recruit recruiters when they come. And she understood that in in theory, she understood that intellectually, but it was still the pull of family that was more important for her. Of like, Oh, you’re rejecting us by not coming home for the summer, when I was looking at it as I’m just trying to make this investment that I’m making worth it in the end. And I right at the time, I didn’t realize all those nuances. I just thought she was being really, you know, overbearing, but, but it’s true, it’s it’s those nuances of of those softer skills, and I hate calling them soft skills, because they have real ROI but that you don’t get from a generation of people that didn’t go to college and didn’t play in that world,
Michelle Hoover 19:15
right, right? And what you were doing, Maria was, you know, strengthening the areas that fgps often have a hard time addressing because of their background. So the things that hold fgps back are a lack of established networks and networking skills, a lack of mentors and people who they can consult who have walked the road before them, and a lack of preparation, professional preparation, so they did not pursue internships, or they weren’t able to study abroad because resources are limited, or, you know, family expectations, you know. Made it really, really hard for them. So this is, this was probably unfortunate for you to experience, but super common,
Maria Ross 20:07
super common. Yeah, and like I said, we had it a little bit better. I had three older brothers that all went to college, and they were able to sort of lobby for me at that point to help my parents understand. But not everybody has that in their family, especially if they’re maybe the oldest child, and this is completely new to their parents, right? My dad went to night school for 11 years as an adult to get his college degree while he had young children at home, so his experience was completely different in terms of but you’re making me think of the story of this woman that I was in business school with, because I graduated with a business degree from Indiana University, and part of the business school there the big weed out semester was called a core and you had to do a project that integrated three of the business courses where it was like 75% of your grade was based on this group project. And we had a woman on our project team, who was of South Asian, Indian descent, and I remember her so vividly because she was actually, she was brilliant, but the only reason she was studying business was because her father wanted her to take over their family’s business. She was a first generation in college. Her
Michelle Hoover 21:19
heart was in medicine, but it was like, and
Maria Ross 21:22
I remember going, why don’t you just tell your parents you want to go into medicine? And it was like, that’s not she was like, that’s not even an option. Like, and I didn’t understand back then what, what that, what the pressure she was under was, and I always felt so bad for her, because she really, really had a love and a passion for medicine, but she’s like, No, I need to graduate with a business degree.
Michelle Hoover 21:43
Well, we can hope that she, you know,
Maria Ross 21:46
maybe she became a doctor. Yes, yes,
Michelle Hoover 21:49
but it’s, it’s really common. I mean, our our our communities, our families, our support systems, when we’re fgps and God love them. I mean, they’re working with the best they have, right? Or the best they’re doing the best they can with what they know, right? And, and it’s limiting, right? Yeah, so yes.
Maria Ross 22:10
And they’re so influential, like, exactly, there’s many people who can’t understand that influence and that pull, but so, so that’s some of the things that are maybe holding them back. But why is investing and recognizing fgps good for a business and good for for a C suite leader, for example?
Michelle Hoover 22:30
What can they contribute? Yeah. So Boston Consulting Group, in April of 2023 they came out with some data, which is the first that I have seen the topic of first generation professionals, and they have found that first generation professionals are 32% more likely to be loyal to their employers, 40% more likely to be more intrinsically motivated, and 48% likelier to pursue management positions that they find in later stages of their career if they’re intrinsically motivated. Now how this translates to me as somebody who does leadership and consults with companies for a living is this is your leadership pipeline, and this helps with more early career retention strategies. So number one, if we look in house at our peers and the people who are already within our walls, and we apply the FGP lens, and before we judge them in air quotes for perhaps not ascending to a managerial or leadership level that we believe that they are capable of. But you know, don’t see the whatever the political capital, the the you know what companies can like, really broadly, call like discretionary effort, or
Maria Ross 23:46
like they’re not, they’re not playing the game the way some people are actually taught to play the game,
Michelle Hoover 23:52
exactly. Yeah, exactly. And it’s my hypothesis that they don’t know that there’s a game to play, or you don’t understand the criticality of the game, because our parents have just told us, if you work hard and keep your nose clean, you will be seen, and therefore you will be promoted, right? So it’s this clashing of worlds, right? You are behaving in accordance with what you have been taught, even though you’re in this new environment that has this completely different code of conduct and
Maria Ross 24:22
expectations well, and a leader may misunderstand that to be, oh, they don’t have drive, or they don’t have an initiative. They’re not proactive, right, where they’re just doing really solid work, because that’s what they think is the
Michelle Hoover 24:35
proactivity Exactly, exactly. And for the early career FGP, who doesn’t show up at the at the happy hour? Number one, they don’t know what to say, or, you know why they need to go, or they need to go home and take care of grandma or an aunt, or, you know, or there’s there, there are any number of reasons why. Some. He wouldn’t go to something outside of, you know, company mandated hours, right? But they don’t know the FGP doesn’t know that that that’s important count? Yeah, yes, a lot. And the F the discretionary effort that one puts in there counts, right? So if we can refrain from jumping to assumptions, and, you know, exercising empathy in that way, right? What don’t I know about the situation? What might not this person be doing? You know, what is what what I expect? Do they know what is expected? And can we understand what it’s like to be the first in your world to exist? And try to be productive in this environment in a way that that can facilitate their upward social mobility.
Maria Ross 25:50
Okay, so so many questions are like popping in my brain right now. So number one is, I want to put a pin in this before I forget. And so you’ll remind me is I want to talk about the importance of of reaching out to be a mentor to these folks, right? But before that, I want to say, How can a leader recognize that someone is a first generation professional, unless that person asks, unless that person volunteers that information, what are some ways that they they make it known. Would it be something that they try to hide? Is there a is there a polite and non aggressive way to inquire if someone is a first generation professional? What would you advise leaders or managers on trying to trying to surface these folks so they know and they can support them better,
Michelle Hoover 26:38
right? So while the first generation professional identity is an identity, and we can be straightforward and ask, Are you the first to do this there? You know, the way to get to know whether somebody is an FGP is not different from understanding or trying to understand them as individuals, as you know, as colleagues, and as people you just generally want to get to know. So how was your weekend? Oh, it was, it was my, my niece’s quinceanera. Oh, awesome. You know, I’ve never been to a quinceanera. Tell me about that. Okay? And, you know, and then it goes from there the line of conversation. So it’s not something that, you know, it’s not like you’re trying to whack a pinata and get, like, all the candy at one go, right? Yeah. You learn this as you develop a relationship and you get to know somebody. But you know, if companies are interested in this, I am of the mind that this is something like, this is something that, because it’s so new, as a first step, I would advise the companies to have people self identify as such. And I would love to see more ERGs. I
Maria Ross 27:51
was just gonna say, like, create an erg where people can get magnetized to again, you know, see if there’s someone you already know is an FGP to lead that and to encourage others to sort of come out of the shadows. And I would, I would assume that the flip side of that is to make assumptions about someone based on their ethnicity, that they are the the first person in the professional world, or to to go to college. We don’t want to go. We don’t want to err on the other side either.
Michelle Hoover 28:19
Right, right? Right? Well, I think that’s, that’s a really important point in that, you know, we think about someone’s landing in the white collar world as like this equalized, you know, set of like conditions that we’re all experiencing the same way, right? And that’s just not true. So it’s, it’s maybe, if, if we think just and give and give thought for a second to the idea, and it’s just expressing it to be a different way, the way that I walk the world, or the way that I walk these halls, is different from Maria or and is different from Joe, and is different from, you know, how is that right? It’s we. It’s just making less assumptions that we’re all in the same boat, right? It’s, it’s, I think it could be as simple as that, yeah. I
Maria Ross 29:08
mean, I think that’s where you know the constant drumming, beating is around conversation and asking people and getting to know them. And as a leader, get to know your people on a personal basis as much as they’re comfortable, right? But we don’t have to be all business all the time. We can ask about our weekends. We can ask about our families. You know, if you, if you step into a landmine for someone, you’ll know that, and then you can sort of back away a little bit, but it’s just, it’s just connecting as human beings and having those conversations. And I often say that the goal of empathy is not conversion, it’s connection. And so it’s not about it’s not about trying to interrogate someone. But you know, asking questions and being curious about someone’s background or family life or expertise is is a good thing. I know, I know some of us are. So I. Scared to do that with everything we’re hearing in the workplace about people’s different experiences, and we don’t want to offend someone, and we don’t want to, like, trigger someone. We don’t want to trigger someone who’s been traumatized, but we can have conversations like, just be reasonable about it.
Michelle Hoover 30:14
Yeah. I mean, I I’ve used this, this, this term, conscious curiosity. Yeah, so if you are thoughtful about what you’re asking, and you exhibit thoughtfulness, people will forgive you if you accidentally, you know, say the wrong thing or make the wrong inference, or whatever it is. But, and, you know, I think people, folks who, folks who are inclined to forgive will forgive, and folks who are just will not, right, so they won’t. It’s yeah, yeah. So yeah, I love that company wisely. So, you
Maria Ross 30:52
know, you talk, you mentioned a little bit about this in terms of, like, the the benefits to an organization of loyalty and engagement and motivation. Is there something to be said here because of some of the circumstances in which first generation professionals you mentioned at the top of this, at get into the workforce because of the responsibility or because of trying to support someone else? Is there, I don’t want to say an assumption, but is there a propensity to knowing that these folks have a really strong work ethic because of the circumstances that are bringing them to your organization and to college or to to the circumstance that they’re in now?
Michelle Hoover 31:32
Indeed, and that’s where I think the loyalty comes in, right? So the loyalty manifests as the product of the hard work become that they are generating, because their goal is stability, right? So essentially, if companies could learn to raise the bar for fgps and help them raise their own personal bars and say, we appreciate your work ethic and we see it, and we see what you’re doing, and you are, you know, steady as a freight train here, and we want to raise your game even more, and we’re going to help you, because we see even more for you. Company wins, FGP wins, and a new standard for what these professionals think is possible for them, is elevated. I think that is that could be really game changing,
Maria Ross 32:29
absolutely. And I think, you know, getting back to the little pin I put in, the topic was engaging in in explicit mentoring programs where you are able, and it’s not, it doesn’t seem so directed at someone. You know, if we, if we as a company, can operationalize a mentoring program for everyone, it’s something that you know, an FGP doesn’t feel like just they’re getting mentored as an example, right? But it sounds like that is so much more important for fgps because of these unwritten rules that we were talking about and unwritten
Michelle Hoover 33:04
norms, exactly. And back to that loyalty piece. This is something that I would love to dig into further. The kinship between fgps is really, really something. So I’ll just, you know, share a story. So I ended up getting my Master’s at Harvard. And Harvard was, I think, gosh, it was just totally not on my radar. And I went because my friend said I should apply. And I said, Okay, fine, and I’ll show you. And I got in. And so I graduated from Harvard. I go to Duke. I work there for a year. They send me to New York, and I moved to Manhattan. And I’m like, Okay, well, I’m a Harvard graduate in Manhattan. What do I do? And this is when, like, the concept of FGP, while I had been living it was, like, totally not accessible to me. So I’m like, I’ll go to the Harvard Club. So I go to the Harvard Club, and I am getting a tour, and I just feel so out of place there, like it’s red and there’s all this, like, oak stuff, and there’s guys smoking cigars, and like, there are people coming in and going to squash, and I’m like, I don’t even know how to play squash, and, like, I completely, like, abandoned the idea. And then I’m like, Okay, well, New York City’s gonna look different for me. And then I started making professional acquaintances outside of my work circle, and I realized among us, we all had blue collar backgrounds. And I was like, You’re my people. Like, if I could take you to the Harvard Club, or if, like, we were all members of the Harvard Club, that would be awesome. But it was a different the different kind of connection that you feel with somebody who has walked some version of your path. So this idea, so I think you were talking more broadly, Maria, about. Mentors. I can’t see a more powerful professional connection or or this could be among the most powerful, powerful professional connections when a more experienced FGP is lighting the path for a new
Maria Ross 35:19
Yeah, well, and that’s why you know, for folks listening, expand your definition of your employee resource groups and move beyond gender, ethnicity, create an employee resource group for this, this subculture of people that you know, they may find a fit in one of the other ERGs, but it might be, you know, a suit that’s a little too loose or tight, but if they find the ERG that’s really those folks that like you, I love what you said, someone who’s walked part of the path I’ve walked on, right? That could exponentially improve their performance and their engagement and their motivation and their loyalty, which, as we know, all impacts the bottom line for the
Michelle Hoover 35:58
organization, right? You’re absolutely right. Fg, FGP, focus, ERGs. Cut right to experiences. Yeah, right. So what are the experiences that we have to acquire in order to gain confidence, or, you know, feel like we can ascend, or what are the experiences that have held us back right, identity led fgps or ident or sorry, identity led ERGs. That’s a lot,
Maria Ross 36:28
I know it’s a lot of acronyms, we’re good, we’re good, but identity
Michelle Hoover 36:31
led, or identity in general, is an amalgam of experiences that lead you to an identity. And identity is like a like a label for a set of experiences, or can be such, right? Whereas, when we’re talking about fgps, fgps really like, don’t have their own identity. At this point, we’re trying to create the identity, right? And in the meantime, we are leading fully with explaining the experience of these folks and what they have gone through, and why what they have gone through leads them to being such great performers in the workforce well,
Maria Ross 37:08
and this is where intersectionality comes in, like you can be part of more than one ERG and part of more than one identity. And this isn’t about fracturing everyone into their own individual camps and tribes, like, that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about being able to find a group that understands what I’m going through and can support me in my work, integrating with the larger group. It’s not about keeping everybody separate, and this is the thing that drives me crazy when some companies say, like, well, we don’t want ERGs because it’s just separating everyone and putting them into camps and no, it’s them finding that support, so that when everyone does come together, it’s a little bit more equitable. It’s a little bit more like everyone is playing the same game, everyone is on the same page. That will help augment the relationships between those different identities and those different groups, if that that particular group or identity has a soft place to land when things go wrong, when things are rough, 100% Yeah, percent. Okay. So as we wrap up, what is one thing that you could share about how companies or leaders, what could they be doing better to harness the potential of these fgps within their organization? We’ve talked about one big one, which is start, you know, find someone to help, start an erg. But what are some other ways that they can harness that? That
Michelle Hoover 38:34
potential, the mentoring piece that you mentioned is, is huge. And let me take a step back before we launch any initiatives. Let’s just talk about fgps in general. Let’s there’s a lot of edge. Let’s identify it. Yeah, exactly. Let there’s this. This concept is emerging. So can we take this on as a lens that we want to explore? And let’s really, really understand what that means. And if I think a powerful step that we could take, if we look at senior management in companies that at Fortune 200 companies, now look at your look at your leaders who are of the baby boom generation, plus find out who’s an FGP, and then see if they would be willing to sponsor something, or, you know, just be involved in in the internal initiative to begin exploring how this could play out in this company. And think less from the perspective of think about what problems you need to solve in the company, right? So look at our let’s look at our leadership pipeline. We know that it’s not as diverse as we want it to be. So how can taking an FGP lens work there, right? How might that be a useful lens for that and also, okay, how many employees have you lose within you know, six, 812, months, right? Let’s, let’s look at what’s common there. Or let’s, let’s begin hypothesizing. How could the FGP lens have helped there? So
Maria Ross 40:07
interesting, so interesting. Well, I I’ve really enjoyed this conversation. I love learning about this work and and I just feel like, like I mentioned earlier, this sort of adds to the tapestry, for me, of diversity, and for some people, that’s a scary thing of like, Oh, it’s another group I got to worry about. For me, it’s exciting because it’s just, it’s just enriching the different perspectives that we can bring to the table within our organizations to help us avoid risks and find opportunities. Because we’re not all looking at the same piece of the puzzle in the same way. And, you know, there’s mounds of data talking about how that that that helps impact organizations and their financial success. So if folks want to find out more about you and your work, we’re going to have all your links in the show notes. But where’s you know, for folks that are working out right now, while they’re listening, where’s the best place they can find out more about you and your work?
Michelle Hoover 41:04
I think the best place to find these on LinkedIn. Michelle Hoover and m y Hoover, so linkedin.com, that’s great. M y Hoover,
Maria Ross 41:13
awesome. And as I always tell my guests or my listeners, if you’re going to reach out to Michelle, make sure you write a note and say that you heard her on this podcast so she doesn’t think you’re trying to sell her something. Michelle, thank you so much. I’m so excited to feature you in the book in the empathy dilemma, and more to come for the two of us and possible collaborations in the future. Thanks for being here. Thank you Maria, and thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the empathy edge podcast. If you like what you heard, you know what to do. Please share with a friend or colleague, and don’t forget to rate and review and follow until next time. Please remember that cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind. For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy. Visit the empathyedge.com there you can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice Maria, never forget, empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place. You.